HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
I tilted up my two Force 125 HP engines last week, and all the transom brackets split in two. I had it towed by water to my marina. The mechanic says that he would have to find two good Force 125 CASES ONLY, and switch my new powerheads and lower units into the case.Apparently, on the Force 125's the transom brackets are an integral part of the entire engine case. I spent 10K with him over the fall having these engines done; now he estimates that switching my new parts to used cases will cost about 4K in labor. I have the boat in South Jersey.<br />Any and all ideas or help would be greatly appreciated.<br />You may email me direct at:<br />dillic11@aol.com<br />Thanks to all !! :mad:
 

byordy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
114
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Possibily you can find someone who can weld aluminium and have them repair the brackets.<br />Bill.......
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Bill, thank you very much for your reply. On Force engings, I am told, that the transom bracket aluminum is not a grade that welds well. Since these are major cracks, and this is a severe stress point, I was advised by the marina's mechanics not to even consider welding.<br />I have no clue if he is correct or not.<br />Thanks again.<br />Chris.<br />
 

sony2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Messages
607
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

How much would it be to weld one transom bracket? One at one shop the other at another shop and see who's lasts the longest.<br />Have a welding shops opinion.<br />Since both split I suspect the marina overtightened something in the rebuild.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Sony, thank you very much for your reply. I truly appreciate your advice.<br />I can fabricate a 1/2" stainless bracket for the transom, and weld weld the engines to the stainless. I have been told that you do not want your engines welded to your boat. This may make some sense.<br />I could unse stainless bolts, but the only place to run the nbolts throught the engines to the transom are completely cracked and split.<br /><br />Thank you. Any other ideas?<br />Chris.
 

RIDEPATE

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
324
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

i'm with the other poster-if it's alluminum it can be welded no matter what the grade,also you can't weld alluminum to stainless wont stick it takes two tottally different heats and rods,take it to a good welder if he's worth his weight it can be fixed.........jim :D
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Is the bracket split where the bolts hohd the motor to the boat? What year motor? I have a salvged 1989, looks like the bracket would come off just like a johnson, which can be changed without removing engine from boat, you change one side at a time.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Clanton, my engine is a 1989 Force 125.<br />I do not have outboard knowledge, however, the mechanic told me that the bracket that holds the engine to the boats transom, is the center part of the engine. He thinks it is not a simple boalt on.<br />If your bracket comes off, I am very willing to buy it.<br />Let me know. <br />Thanks, Chris.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

CLANTON, the bracket is split (about a 1-2" split) where the bolts go through the bracket.<br /><br />RIDEPATE, thank you for thr reply.<br />The split is between 1-2" on both sides of the engine bracket. Inside the split you can see heavily pitted aluminum. I suppose it could be welded back together, however the engine would have to be pulled (I have no trailer), and taken to a few local welders for their opinion.<br />I have looked in the local papers here in South Jersey, and I can not find a mobile welder. I have no way to remove the engine myself, nor do I have a truck to take it to a welder. I understand your point on the aluminum to stainless welding issue. Point well taken.<br />I am kinda at the mercy of the marine mechanics. The boat is now on the marina's yard. I have tried favors, bribery, etc.., however these guys are really just parts swappers.<br />thank you.<br />Chris.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

CLANTON, the bracket is split (about a 1-2" split) where the bolts go through the bracket.<br /><br />RIDEPATE, thank you for thr reply.<br />The split is between 1-2" on both sides of the engine bracket. Inside the split you can see heavily pitted aluminum. I suppose it could be welded back together, however the engine would have to be pulled (I have no trailer), and taken to a few local welders for their opinion.<br />I have looked in the local papers here in South Jersey, and I can not find a mobile welder. I have no way to remove the engine myself, nor do I have a truck to take it to a welder. I understand your point on the aluminum to stainless welding issue. Point well taken.<br />I am kinda at the mercy of the marine mechanics. The boat is now on the marina's yard. I have tried favors, bribery, etc.., however these guys are really just parts swappers.<br />thank you.<br />Chris.<br /><br /><br /> :confused:
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clanton

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Will look at engine tomorrow and let you know.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Clayton, thanks.<br />I am going fishing on a friends boat. We ar leaving dockside at 3AM.<br />Will check email in afternoon.<br />Chris..
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
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Messages
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Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Will look at engine tomorrow and let you know.
 

y-knot

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
14
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Dillic11,<br /><br />Sounds like Clanton has this all taken care of for you. If you still need to find a welder, try Dolphin Marine Services. They are associated with boatfix.com in Fortescue, NJ (you can get the phone number from the contact tab on the boatfix site.) The owner hosts a technical forum for Bayliner owners on another site.<br /><br />Best of luck<br /><br />PS are those on a 23' trophy?
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
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Jul 9, 2001
Messages
4,876
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

I just looked at engine, looks like brackets will come off, there is left and right. The pair on the engine I have look good. You can try George at Dolphin marine or www.boatered.com . Look at AAA machine shop, they are listed as dealer this site, he sells a lot of used parts for Force. I want a 100.00 plus S&H for the set I have. Will be 2 weeks before I can remove them and ship. Snook season is open and I am trying to fish for the next 2 weeks.
 

dillic11

Cadet
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

YNOT, YES the twin Force 125's are on a 23' MINT bayliner.<br /><br /><br />CLANTON I canm wait two weeks.<br />Send your full namenand adress to me and I will send you a $100.00 Postal MO.<br />You can email me direct at dillic11@aol.com<br /><br />Thanks to all.
 

y-knot

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
14
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Its a great boat, I have an 89 2302 with twin 125's. I have one engine that #3 won't fire (I think the Trigger Switch is gone.) The George Clanton referred to is the owner of Boatfix. <br /><br />PS. I looked at the hanger on the transom and I am very confused about your marina saying it cannot be unbolted. You may want to find a marina that specializes in Force Engines. My experience with a Mercury Dealer that picked up the force line was a bad one. If you can find a Dealer that originally sold Force Motor Only, you may have better luck.<br /><br />Joe
 

dillic11

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Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
9
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Joe, thanks for thr reply. If you saw my initial posting, younsaw that I have over 10K in the new Powerheads, and lowr unit rebuilds this past spring. I have had this Trophy since new, and after the rebuild, the engines ran like new again. I also love the boat. I have pampered it up to 50 miles off Atlantic ciy, and caught 60 lb. + tuna standing up. It is a seaworthy hull design.<br />The ONLY reason I was selling the boat, is because I love recreational fishing. The only reason that I moved up in size to a Silverton, is that this boat will get me 90 miles out to thecanyons, where sport fishing is very good. I tag and release about 80% of the fish I catch.<br />Their are (4) 3/4" bolts that go through the Force transom bracket, and get bolted through the 3" transom plate. When I tilted the engines up (during an in water demo for a potential buyer), the brackets all cracked vertically right down the middle of all the boats. This was thenfirst time I had used the tilts since we launced the boat in mid March. The engene props, when on plane, throw salt water spray all over these brackets. From the salt buildup, when I did tilt the engined two weeks ago, the powerful hydrolic tilts broke the weakest link. Apparently the weakest ling was right down then center of each transom bracket. Now they are sitting with a 1" to 2" gap/split in each bracket. The boat can not be used, as when I try to tult the engines up, they bith actually lift off the transom btacket. I wish they fell off, then at least the insurance may cover a large percent of the repair costs.<br />I agree that taking the boat to somone more knowledgable on Force engines would be beneficial. Locating one who will take a job like this has not yet been successful/<br />I am still hunting for a shop.<br />Thanks much for the reply.<br />Chris.
 

y-knot

Cadet
Joined
Aug 10, 2001
Messages
14
Re: HELP !! Force 125 Big Problem

Dillic11,<br /><br />I had a thought last night about why this may have occurred. The motors Move (tilt) on an axle (the two hydraulic cylinders move the motor on this axle-ones the trim and one tilts the motor out of the water.) The axle may have frozen from lack of use or was not rotating freely, especially if the motors were in the water and this was the first time they were raised in a while. Did the hydraulic system seem to strain and then break free with a pop? Or, did the bracket crack and the motors never raised-except to raise off the transom due to the crack? You should be able to lift the engine by hand (there is a shock absorber on one side that will provide some resistance, but I lift mine by hand-with some straining. Without analyzing the forces and their direction, I would guess the weight of the engine would hold the motor on the transom as opposed to allowing it to lift off the transome due to the cracked brackets as you described. To me this says the axle may still be frozen or not have free movement. <br /><br />I am not a mechanic, but for all four brackets to fail at the same time due to fatigue is odd. Something caused them to be stressed in a way/to a point that they were not designed to take. (bottom line, you may need to look at the axle these pivit on also.-guess this could have been a lot shorter LOL)<br /><br />Good luck <br /><br />Joe<br /><br />PS. Email me how much you want for the boat at acacio@aol.com
 
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