HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

[djfam]

Took 3 year boat/motor renovation to river today for first run. Everything was perfect until we put the motor into forward. Nothing happened, except the throttle increased. No prop spin, no gear engage...nothing. Has tested everything 4 times in the past 2 weeks with the earmuffs on in the yard and everything was perfect then and seemed to work well in forward and reverse. Per the Seloc book, I tested the gear/throttle linkage and tightened the control cables, and everything seems to be moving to the right place, which makes me think it might be a problem down in the gearcase itself. There is no grinding noise, so I don't know if the gear is shot or not. I am lost to this problem and I am hoping that someone can give me some advice on this. Any help you can provide is hugely appreciatetd.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

When you are running the engine on muffs in the yard, does it engage and does the prop spin then?

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

I checked it out 4 times with the earmuffs on and it did engage each time. I thought we were good to go until we were in the water. One of the guys at the dock suggested it may be a slipping prop hub, but I don't know much about that. When I follow the directions in my manual for the gearcase, it tells me that when in forward gear, I should be able to turn the prop clockwise, but not counter clockwise. When I try this, I can barely move it in a clockwise direction. In neutral, the prop spins freely in bot directions. I'm no gearhead, although I will try anything, so your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

As far as I know you can not turn the prop when in gear ... take your prop off, just behind the prop you will locate the prop bushing, make sure it is still in good condition, but my geuss would be the clutch dog pin ... check your manual for this, it could be that this pin is broken ...

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Thanks for your input. I will look to see how easy (or hard) this job will be. Is this something that can be done with the usual array of tools or do I need to purchase a specialty tool to get the transmission out of the case?

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

you don't need to take off your lower unit, only your prop and don't need any special tools to do it .... if you do need to take the lower unit off, you must be carefull to not break any bolts off .... no special tools needed for that either only a good couple of spanners ..

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

DeeJayCee - first of all, let me thank you for taking the time to help a rookie with this issue. <br /><br />The steps in the Clymer manual for getting to the clutch dog look very comlplicated. Like I said before, I am game to try almost anything mechanical, but this looks like a very tricky procedure and might be over my head.<br /><br />I have had the prop off several times, and the bushing behind the prop looks like it is good shape (although, truthfully, I don't know what it really should look like.) The gearcase has been off twice since I got the boat, once to replace the water pump impeller and the other was just the other day when I took it off thinking I might have screwed up when I put it all back together. Everything seemed fine there so that was not the problem. Your explanation of the clutch dog pin sounds logical, so that will be the next step I try. Are there any pitfalls to that process that I should be careful about?

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Update....I just out the muffs on and shceked out the motor. It worked perfectly with the prop going into forward gear, and the reverse working as well. I am at a loss now, as whatever the problem is must be occurring when against the water pressure of being submerged. Any additional ideas or suggestions would be appreciated. I'm half tempted to go back to the river and try it again just to make sure. For what it is worth, the prop nut could go about a half turn more to be tight. Do you think that the water pressure pushing back on the prop could be causing it to spin free? Perhaps I need to tighten that nut down all the way tight?

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

I also think it is a good idea to take it back to the river just to make 100% sure, you never know, and yes you definately need to tighten that prop nut all the way, that could be your problem right there ... so tighten that prop nut, make sure you have a split pin on the front and go and test it at the river and keep me updated ..... good luck

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

UPDATE...still no good news to report. Went back out to the river today and there is still no forward gear/movement in the motor. Reverse and Neutral both work fine. I even changed props to make sure that it was not a hub problem, and the issue was the same on either prop. The problem is definitely somewhere inside the gearcase. To review, the prop/gears engage with muffs on it, but not in the water with back pressure. When in the water, it appears that the prop makes it into gear, but will not push the boat forward at all (something not engaging or something slipping????) Any additional assistance you can provide would be apppreciated, bit I think I am looking now at a hefty repair bill.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

mmmm ... did you tighten that prop nut all the way? When you say " it appears that the prop makes it into gear, but will not push the boat forward at all" what noise does it make when you open the throttle? Can you hear the motor only spinning?

 

[craw]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

I have a DT150 and have had similar drama with the gears in trying to select forward and reverse. It sounds to me like it is a problem with the shift mechanism not being adjusted properly. I would adjust the linkages so that the shifter is moved more toward forward gear. Keep moving it forward a little bit at a time until you are able to select forward gear (you should do this whilst on the water with the motor running). If the gearbox is shimmed correctly, you should be able to adjust for forward and reverse.

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

DeeJayCee...When the control is put into the forward position from neutral, the prop spins slowly once it engages. When the motor is throttled up, it does so normally and sounds as it should. The throttle cable appears to be fine and in fact when put into reverse, I have full throttle control as well as gear control. There is no grinding noise when put into forward and no noise that sounds out of the ordinary other than the throttle increase. We even tilted the motor up to see what everything looked like, and we could see that the prop was spinning somewhat slowly when throttled up. On the muffs, it works perfectly and increases in spin rate as the throttle increases.

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Craw...when you say to adjust the linkage, are you taling about the linkage on the motor end or on the control box end where the cable is? We did do some of that, but we got to a point where if we adjusted the cable any more, we lost reverse without seeing any improvement in forward. We also did some work at the motor end and disconnected the cable and tried to shift by hand. Even when all the way down, the gear still did not engage. For what it is worth, when I changed the gear oil, there was not a single trace of metal in the oil so this may be a sign that there is nothing amiss in the gearcase. Your point about looking at the linkages is a good one and one that I will revisit.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Ok, from your information it can only be 2 things .... try this test ..... hook the motor up on the muffs and take the engine cover off, start it up and put it into forward gear, then with the engine in forwardgear, increase the rpm from the engine itself (by the carbs) not your throttle! Then see how your prop spins, if it spins better like you described just now, then you have a throttle problem, otherwise the only other posible problem I can gather from what you have told me here would be the clutch dog pin ...

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

DeeJayCee...tried the test that you recommended and of course, as is my luck, it made no difference. I will have to take out the transmission and see what is going on in there. I'm sure that since I have tried everything at this point, that it must be something inside there causing the problem. How hard is it to get a trans out and will I need a special tool to do it?

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Mmmmm, I agree you will now have to take the transmission appart, ... well it can be done but can be a messy one, drop the lower unit and then drain all the oil ... no you don't need a special tool, but it can be a mission getting the thing apart, just make sure you know where everything goes, and put it nicely apart, as you do not wanto loose anything from this unit ... good luck

 

[djfam]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Well, we took the gears out and as my luck would have it, the forward gear where it meets the clutch dog was totally ground off. I ordered the parts ($414 US), which took a few weeks since they were back-ordered. Finally got them in and installed them this past Saturday. Could not wait to get out to the river and try them out. Motor started beautifully and backed out of the dock with no problem. The moment of truth...I moved it into forward, it engaged, and off we went! Three years work were finally complete...or so I thought. After about a half mile jaunt, the motor bogged down and stalled. I immediately thought it was a fuel issue, so we primed the bulb again and off we went. Same thing happened multiple times. When we did get the motor running, she ran the boat at a respectable 35mph into the wind but I won't have my brother and law with me to constantly pump the bulb so I guess I will be working on figuring out the fuel issue now, but we do have the gear issue resolved. I am guessing that either the fuel pump diaphragm needs replaced or the carbs are gunked up. I appreciate all your help on my initial issue, and if you can help with the new one, I would appreciate that as well.

 

[deejaycee_2000]

Re: HELP!! Major Shifting Problem 1982 Suzuki DT85 NO FORWARD GEAR!!

Good to hear you got the lower unit sorted out .... well you did so much effort with the lower unit thus far, give the motor a good service ... plugs, fuel filters, clean those carbs really good, and yes a good idea to replace the fuel pump diaphram .... let me know how it goes, good luck ...