HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

[alien4fish]

Hi forum,
Here is my delima, i just purchased a 1981 sea ray with a Mercruiser 260 and merc alpha1 out drive. I checked out the boat at the guys house and it started right up and ran well in the driveway, the engine reved well, no knocks no pings. The tilt drive had a leak in the clear line that runs to the lockout, I replaced the line and then took the boat down to the water to sea trial the boat to see how it would do in the harbor, when i was at idle in gear cruising around the harbor it was running well, when I went to power it up in started to run very rough under load. I could only get it up to 2000 rpm's and it would miss and run very rough. I figured it may need a carb cleaning or replacement( no big deal i could do that) there was a small amount of smoke that was coming from what looked to be the heads however, when we came in to the dock, there was a ticking noise coming from the engine compartment when we opened the hatch there was oil in the bilge, doing a brief inspection at the dock it looks like oil is coming from the back of the heads. The engine temp was running a little on the high side(impeller?) I can fix that. So I called the guy that sold me the boat, and expressed my displeasure and let him know I will be returning the boat in the event that the motor is toast, we never even got the boat out of the harbor, the problems started almost right away. how can it run really well while in the yard but run so poorly under load? I can take some pix and post them if needed. Am I screwed and need to replace the motor?
is this something I can fix myself?
My apologies if My Grammar isnt perfect right now im just a little pissed off at the moment.
Thanks for any help in advance.
Kevin

 

[Don S]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

What does the oil on the dipstick look like? Is it milky? Is it way over the full mark?

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Hi Don,
Thank you for the quick response, I checked the oil at the guys house and it was clean, like a fresh oil change he told me he just serviced the engine I also checked under the oil filler cap, and did in fact notice a very small amount of milky oil that i could rub between my fingers i figured it could be condinsation from sitting. However now looking back and having exp. with cars and blown head gaskets ............
But Don, why would I be loosing all the oil into the bilge ? why would'nt it just fill up with water and turn all milky white?
Does that mean that it heated up so badly it perhaps cracked a head or maybe worse cracked the block?

 

[JustJason]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Pull an oil sample with a suction pump, or just pull off the oil filter and dump it.

You have 1 of 3 types of oil in the bilge

1. engine oil
2. Gear oil
3. PT&T oil

You need to figure out which one it is. But #'s 1 and 2 are the most common. At this point though priority #1 is finding out wether you bought a boat with a cracked block or not. Check the engine oil, pull a sample.

 

[Don S]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

why would I be loosing all the oil into the bilge ? why would'nt it just fill up with water and turn all milky white?

I didn't know if it was milky or not, that's why I asked.

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

I didn't know if it was milky or not, that's why I asked.

understood, the problem is by the time we got it back to the dock there was barely any oil in the motor, hence the ticking of the valves, so i shut the motor down right away and then added more engine oil, it does in fact look milky gray it probably didnt have enough time to get mixed when it started to leak out of the motor, the bilge pump kicked on and spat out some of the oil. so now, is it the heads or is it the block?? thats the three thousand dollar question
so in reading other posts on this board, it does look very grim, either a cracked block or a blown head gasket or gaskets.
In your experience Don, which is most common? the heads or the Block with the Merc I/O ?

 

[Juniinc]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

when did you get the boat?
I'm guessing that you prolly had a few cold nites lately?

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

when did you get the boat?
I'm guessing that you prolly had a few cold nites lately?

I just bought it a few days ago, if its the heads I can fix it, ive done blown headgaskets before.
However because of the fact I just purchased it im leaning tward taking it back, I paid WAAAAY to much for a boat that has this problem.

 

[havasuboatman]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

If you can, get out from under this boat. All boats are money pits, but this one seems really deep.
Pumping the oil out of a boat in just a trip around the harbor is like artieral bleeding.
And so you know, the only oil that gets into the heads gets there by way of the pushrods. There are no oil galley's in your heads.
Make sure you aren't loosing that oil out of the oil cooler or lines.
By the way, you can have a motor that is just warn out that idles and revs fine. The motor isn't doing anything. That's why we test drive. Before we buy, after a repair.
We used to get cars to pass smog by retarding the hell out of the timing (Waaaay back) they idled fine and reved good. But would bearly drive into the work bay.

 

[cedarjunki]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Hi forum,
Here is my delima, i just purchased a 1981 sea ray with a Mercruiser 260 and merc alpha1 out drive. I checked out the boat at the guys house and it started right up and ran well in the driveway, the engine reved well, no knocks no pings. when i was at idle in gear cruising around the harbor it was running well, when I went to power it up in started to run very rough under load. I could only get it up to 2000 rpm's and it would miss and run very rough. how can it run really well while in the yard but run so poorly under load?

I checked the oil at the guys house and it was clean, like a fresh oil change he told me he just serviced the engine I also checked under the oil filler cap, and did in fact notice a very small amount of milky oil that i could rub between my fingers i figured it could be condinsation from sitting.

My apologies if My Grammar isnt perfect right now im just a little pissed off at the moment.
Thanks for any help in advance.
Kevin

my unknown cracked head would purr like a kitten on the muffs....once in the water motor gets hot and (pressurized) in which opens the crack up a bit more pushing/sucking water in.. did you pull the breather???? is it filled with oil?? might be a slight crack around an exhast port pressurizing the crankcase..

any new news??? good luck

hate to say it but it sounds like this guy was trying to pon off a problem on anyone willing to buy......a fresh oil change to covor everything up!

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

If you can, get out from under this boat. All boats are money pits, but this one seems really deep.
Pumping the oil out of a boat in just a trip around the harbor is like artieral bleeding.
And so you know, the only oil that gets into the heads gets there by way of the pushrods. There are no oil galley's in your heads.
Make sure you aren't loosing that oil out of the oil cooler or lines.
By the way, you can have a motor that is just warn out that idles and revs fine. The motor isn't doing anything. That's why we test drive. Before we buy, after a repair.
We used to get cars to pass smog by retarding the hell out of the timing (Waaaay back) they idled fine and reved good. But would bearly drive into the work bay.

Yeah I think thats what im going to try and do "take it back, Get out from under it"
I have had boats before, but nothing ever this big (25 foot boat), i had ski boats with 2 strokes etc. how big of a job is it to do head gaskets ? im sure I can find replacement heads for the engine how many hours?
if i find that this guy wont give me back my money, I will have to either sue him in court, or look into the prospect of repairing it right the 1st time.
HDS machine has everything inhouse to magnaflux, surface,(If the heads arent cracked) as soon as it is light out I will take a few pictures and post them up
Thank you guys for your help, im so glad that someone thought up this website as resource fo info and help with diagnosing these engines

 

[Blk-n-Blu]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Not to overlook the simple things, have you considered that the oil filter may be at fault? possibly loose or bad seal.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

oil pressure sending unit??? screws in just to the right of the dist.
YOU water tested in and accepted it AS IS, why do you think you can sue.If the seller disclosed everyting he knew about it and you agreed, Oh Well.................................

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

understood, the problem is by the time we got it back to the dock there was barely any oil in the motor, hence the ticking of the valves, so i shut the motor down right away and then added more engine oil,

Howdy,


Are you saying that you ran the engine with no oil pressure?

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

No, I kept a very close eye on the oil pressure gauge so it is most likely faulty ............hhhmmm i wonder. yes I am resigned to the fact that I have just bought a boat that will need a repower, I did not do a sea trial<<<< LESSON LEARNED That will only happen once. now I Must Suck it up stop whining like a ............. and figure out how im going to either repower, or R/R the heads.
im at least looking at that up side when im done I will know what I have
Ok can point me in the right direction for Merc Heads and or long blocks.
Im in San diego BTW Thanks Guys for all your help!
This is the coolest board ever!

 

[rebars1]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Check the oil plug, filter and sender for leaks like Blk-n-Blue suggested. if the PO just did an oil change, maybe they are leaking (happened to me). That's a lot oil to pump out of the heads in a short time. If the boat has been in SD there is no danger for freezing.

Also, are the exhaust manifolds and risers in good condition? How's the compression?

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Check the oil plug, filter and sender for leaks like Blk-n-Blue suggested. if the PO just did an oil change, maybe they are leaking (happened to me). That's a lot oil to pump out of the heads in a short time. If the boat has been in SD there is no danger for freezing.

Also, are the exhaust manifolds and risers in good condition? How's the compression?

Ihavent done one yet, I will dust off the gauge perhaps today and do a compression test.
I took the boat to a mechanic yesterday, all he does is motors he looked for the leak as well and said he couldnt find anything at the top of the motor. I showed him where "I" thought the oil was coming from....... back off the head by the oil sending unit. He saw all the oil in the bilge and said" well you deff. have a problem here".....DUH
He wants to pull the motor and repower they qouted 3300
I told him that was to steep, so he said he would give me a call today.
I want to do the compression test Before we go pulling the motor it could be something else I just gotta find the leak......................................
and yes exhaust manifolds are on the short list, esp. if I do a repower.
The water has to be getting in from the manifolds at least thats what i think,

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

Ok Forum, heres the update for those following along and may be having the same problems that im having, I found the oil leak, it was in the oil pan at the bottom of the motor there was a "small"spot where it rusted thru. I found a great temporary fix some time ago called JB WELD PUTTY at walmart. I used it on one of my other boats in an emergency situation once and was a big fan ever since. and I always keep a a fresh tube of it in my tool box.But I digress, I used the JB Weld Putty to repair the small hole in the oil pan. then waited the hour for it cure (sets in 15-25min.) Then filled the engine back up with fresh oil, pulled the coil wire and started the compression test to see which cylinder is having issues, and here is what i found
Now as you can see,
#5 is at 90
#3 is at 31
and those cylinders are side by side
now what would be the likleyhood that we are dealing with head gasket?
and what is even more interesting is that is the same side that looks like someone (PO) went in and did some work on the motor. Looks like newer gaskets on that same side.
Maybe they just changed out the head gasket and did'nt resurface the head, or better yetmaybe they just the same exhaust mani on there and called it good the thing is clogged with crap..............
I just love buying someone elses problem, isnt boating fun??
any comments or suggestions are welcome

 

[alien4fish]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

here are few pix of my boat, a new motor is coming very soon and I will post up more pix as we remove the drive, and the motor and install the new power plant. I finally have a good game plan after much research and even more phone calls around town

 

[Juniinc]

Re: HELP!!! no power under load oil in the bilge!!

So was it the head gasket? cracked head/block?