Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I made the changes and it sounded like it was ready to fire up. The battery was getting a little weak so I put the charger on it. Will charge it up and hit it again tomorrow.

It seems like it is really sensitive to the positioning of the distributor for some reason.

Jim

 

[Aloysius]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

The TDC mark on the damper goes around twice for each firing cycle. The distributor turns the same direction for both engines. I just completely rebuilt both my SB Fords, so I can look at them and tell you immediately the firing order.

While you're at it, mark 36 degrees advance on your damper. That's exactly 1/10 of the distance around the damper. THIS is approximately what you want for total advance at 3000 rpms. forget "initial" timing..you want 34-36 degrees TOTAL on those small block Fords, especially with large chamber 351 heads.

 

[Jaysad]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

The TDC mark on the damper goes around twice for each firing cycle. The distributor turns the same direction for both engines. I just completely rebuilt both my SB Fords, so I can look at them and tell you immediately the firing order.

While you're at it, mark 36 degrees advance on your damper. That's exactly 1/10 of the distance around the damper. THIS is approximately what you want for total advance at 3000 rpms. forget "initial" timing..you want 34-36 degrees TOTAL on those small block Fords, especially with large chamber 351 heads.

Wow, interesting!
Why is that?
Can you explane this?
This winter I'm rebiulding my 302 HO, and adding 351 head & 4 bbl carb. and intake.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

What kind of advance would you need for starting?

Jim

 

[Aloysius]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

8-12 degrees of initial crankshaft timing is usually ok for starting. A 302 with 351 heads/large combustion chambers will probably never spark knock or detonate..compression is too low.

ALL engines need timing advance because the fuel burns, not explode. This burn time is a finite process, and the advance compensates for this time lag. The object is to have peak pressure in the cylinder at TDC. Turbulence in the combustion chamber greatly affects the advance needed..vortec Chevies need less advance than their older designed siblings.

 

[alien4fish]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I it is backfiring easily and wont stay running it might be 180 deg off. Line up the timing marks on the ballancer and timing cover and pull the distributor and spin the rotor 180 deg. Or you might have a few of the plug wires missplaced

X2 Compadre, I had the same Excact problem its sounds like 180 out, lets see whats the proceedure..................
pull the #1 spark plug turn the motor over by hand( i use a breaker bar with 3/4 socket I think thats the size but yours maybe different) until the piston is all the way at the top of the cylinder. you may have to do this 2-3 times to get into the rythym of what your pistons are doing and get a good idea of what your crank is doing(no pun intended) once you get the piston ALL the way to the top of its compression stroke STOP!
Now look at your timing mark on the Pully Is it in the range of the marks on the timing chain housing?
it should be...........keeping your fingers crossed
NOW go look at the dizzy, pull the cap and look at the rotor, is it pointing at the #1 cylinder like it should be? YOU must have the book to know where #1 isor know your motor or find it here on iboats, For a chevy it should be pointing almost forward twards the bow. Now,IF NOT it will be pointing the opposite direction of where it should be. Loosen the the keeper bracket and move it out of the way..........NOW GENTLY lift the the distributer and turn it 180 in the opposite direction and set it back in, you may have to"feel " around just alittle bit to get the dizzy back on the oil pump slot at the bottom of the engine. You''ll Feel it drop in, just be patient and you'll get it.
And if that aint it then you've got a crossed wire or two, just reffer back to your book and look at the firing order. Ihope this helps Good luck.
And how do I know what im talkin about you ask??? I would like to direct your attention the to the Photographs in exhibit 1-3 Puleeze

 

[alien4fish]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

and now going back and reading the rest of the posts, looks like im late to the party:redface:
LOL did you get her running?

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Actually I think the correct socket on the 302/351w for the crank bolt is something like a 15/16's.

 

[rickryder]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

What kind of advance would you need for starting?

Jim

You can start at TDC and slowly turn the distributor advancing it till it starts.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

UPDATE:

Had to take a couple of days off but this was what I found.

Firing Order:

This is the first Ford V8 I have worked on and I assumed it was 1 3 5 7 on the passenger side (forward) bank. Well, thanks to chaparall villain 2 I caught that and got the thing running very roughly. Actually it was running on the accelerator pump.

The real problem.

I checked the float levels and they were a little high but not out of line. Then I figured out the problem. There had to be a manifold leak. I had installed an Edelbrock Performer 289 manifold and hadn't really looked at the riser block. The old manifold had a large plate whereas the Edelbrock manifold dips in at the bolts.

The riser plate is where the pcv hose connects in and is diverted to the primary part of the carburetor. To put it briefly, the old riser plate did not line up with the new manifold and caused an immense vacuum leak.

So, anyone know where to get a riser plate for a Edelbrock to Holley carburetor with about a 1" rise and a PCV connection?

Thanks,

Jim

 

[chaparall villain 2]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

you migght be able to just get by with a throttle cable plate they are flat but might cover the area ... but you would need more gaskets i had to get a similar riser for a 1964 impala and i got it from hires auto parts ... but they had to order it ... good luck

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I think I found the part in Summit Racing that carries quite a few marine parts, by the way. It is 1/8" thick with two gaskets. Complications, complications.

Jim

 

[rickryder]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Look at conversion plate in the auto section they should work too...Summit or Jeggs

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I purchased an Edelbrock plate. The engine starts and runs but dies under 2000 rpm. I have a feeling I have a manifold leak or something else. I saw a tip from another forum post that recommended spraying starting fluid around the suspected area.

Any Ideas appreciated.

Jim

 

[Adirondack]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

I purchased an Edelbrock plate. The engine starts and runs but dies under 2000 rpm. I have a feeling I have a manifold leak or something else. I saw a tip from another forum post that recommended spraying starting fluid around the suspected area.

Any Ideas appreciated.

Jim

Aside for selecting something a bit less flamable than starting fluid I would say go for it. I much prefer carb cleaner for this sort of testing. You will have to listen a bit more carefully for your engine change, but the chance of going up in flames are greatly reduced. Just saying.

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Good point about the volatility of starting fluid. I will try the carb cleaner.

If no vacuum leaks, where do I go from here? I rebuilt the carburetor and set the Holley 4bbl float levels roughly until I get it running at low rpms so I can use the side port to fine tune. I would think that the engine would run down to lower than 2000 rpms. I wonder where the idle jets kick in?

Jim

 

[Adirondack]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Good point about the volatility of starting fluid. I will try the carb cleaner.

If no vacuum leaks, where do I go from here? I rebuilt the carburetor and set the Holley 4bbl float levels roughly until I get it running at low rpms so I can use the side port to fine tune. I would think that the engine would run down to lower than 2000 rpms. I wonder where the idle jets kick in?

Jim

That's a heck of a question. With everything that goes on with assembling a new unit it would only be guessing, and there's a million of them. I would first rule out vacume leak. A forgoten intake plug, intake gasket which is new, and should be fine, pcv hose left off anything. It could be the most obvious thing. After that start backtracking. Checking everything. Fuel system, ignition. It does sound like you have a vacume leak going on though. Just a quick thought. If the heads and/or block surfaces were resurfaced, did they also resurface the intake?

 

[Jim Marshall]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

Adirondack,

The surfaces were renewed but thanks for the tip.

I am beginning to wish I had left the old manifold. Oh well, I think you are right about using the vacuum guage. I couldn't find my old one so I think I will buy a new vacuum/fuel pressure one.

It has a new marine fuel pump, a new regular filter plus a Sierra I added. Spark seems to be just great, although my old timing light seems to have seen its better days so I think I will buy a new one of those.

It has been quite a while since I have worked on an engine and I seem to be reinventing and/or breaking every rule in the book.

On the positive side, the spark seems to be good out of the new breakerless Holley marine distributor, new Mallory marine wires and new plugs. Everything on the raw water and circulating pump seems to be working.

Like you say, lots of variables to play with.

Jim

Jim

 

[Don S]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

You do realize, that if you were using the wrong firing order and wrong cylinder numbering, that your valve adjustment is probably all screwed up.
Day late and a dollar short, but here is what you needed a long time ago....... The OEM service manual for your engine. http://www.4shared.com/file/89797017/1d3a1281/AQ190-AQ240_Ford.html
Might as well have the outdrive one too. http://www.4shared.com/file/51930153/3a7e6375/270_Outdrive_service_manual.html

 

[Adirondack]

Re: Help!!! Rebult 302 won't fire off.

You do realize, that if you were using the wrong firing order and wrong cylinder numbering, that your valve adjustment is probably all screwed up.
Day late and a dollar short, but here is what you needed a long time ago....... The OEM service manual for your engine. http://www.4shared.com/file/89797017/1d3a1281/AQ190-AQ240_Ford.html
Might as well have the outdrive one too. http://www.4shared.com/file/51930153/3a7e6375/270_Outdrive_service_manual.html

DOH! LOL Don. You might be on to something there. Like I said. It's most likely staring him right in the face.