Help with choosing boat! Please!

NYBo

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

OK definitely a 50HP, didnt come with a 40hp ever and guy said it was original equipment.
Yeah, Force never made a 40 AFAIK. I know for sure they didn't make one in '87.

Buy the boat and repower, if the boat is that good. If you buy ANY 23 year old motor you should budget to repower. And if that motor is running well you may be able to get a little for it.
I think that's a good plan if the 50 doesn't have enough oomph for you.
 

JimS123

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Based on the photos and the description, assuming the usage is correct and it was maintained as described, it sounds like a real steal to me. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Its a perfect "starter boat", and the price is right.

I think many of the negative posts here are poor advice. Sure, we all would like a brand new supercharged, 7 cylinder Scarab with turbo boost and hand honed titanium whappagiggers and gold plated 416 SS prop, but not everybody can afford it. A Force may not be state-of-the art, but its a very usable motor that will probably last you for many years if you treat it well. I personally prefer other brands, but I do have some experience with friend's Forces and they are not as bad a s some might lead you to believe.

If this is your entry into boating, go for it. Just offer the guy a few bucks less and maybe he will come down a bit.
 

Jeep Man

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Sounds like a good deal. Likely, the Force will run without a problem for quite some time. Keep an eye out for a motor you'll be more content with. Getting a solid boat and like new trailer is worth a lot.
 

ezmobee

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Its a perfect "starter boat", and the price is right.

I think many of the negative posts here are poor advice. Sure, we all would like a brand new supercharged, 7 cylinder Scarab with turbo boost and hand honed titanium whappagiggers and gold plated 416 SS prop, but not everybody can afford it. A Force may not be state-of-the art, but its a very usable motor that will probably last you for many years if you treat it well. I personally prefer other brands, but I do have some experience with friend's Forces and they are not as bad a s some might lead you to believe.

So the "perfect" starter boat has an undersized outboard on it that's difficult to get parts and service for?

I'm not trying to be a hater. Swap that motor with a Johnson/Evinrude/Mercury OR drop the price about a grand and we've got a different situation.
 

JimS123

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

So the "perfect" starter boat has an undersized outboard on it that's difficult to get parts and service for?

I'm not trying to be a hater. Swap that motor with a Johnson/Evinrude/Mercury OR drop the price about a grand and we've got a different situation.

The OP asked for an opinion. I believe that its a deal that comes around only once in awhile. You think he shouldn't buy it. Its up to him to sort thru the opinions and make up his own mind whether it meets his needs or not.

To me a starter boat means one that will get you in the water without having to mortgage the kids, and will serve you well until you have the money to buy a "bigger" (or substitute "better", "faster", "more expensive", etc.)one.

Maybe its just where I live, but so many people around here don't bother to cover their boats in the snow, and don't have a clue that impellers and u-joints need maintanance. For that reason, (IMHO) condition is everything.

What does underpowered mean? How fast does the guy want to go? For the application he stated, 30 mph is perfect for a starter boat.

In my neighborhood, there are 2 factory trained (former) Force Dealers and parts and service are no issue. If he lives in East Podunk, maybe I would have a different opinion. Regardless, I would rather buy a 20 year old Force with 40 hours on it, as opposed to a 10 year old Rude with 200 hours.
 

ezmobee

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Regardless, I would rather buy a 20 year old Force with 40 hours on it, as opposed to a 10 year old Rude with 200 hours.

And there's the rub. I could not disagree with that statement more.
 

Home Cookin'

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

And some paddles can beat some outboards--the ones that don't work!

Seriously, though, as to a starter boat, that's fine to start with something less than the ultimate, to a degree: if the 50 will move it around, fine; if it won't plane, the new owner would be a frustrated boater from the start. this is why I cringe when I read a post from a new boater who plans to drop his entire boating budget on the biggest/cheapest; we know he has nothing but engine issues, repair expenses, disappointed children and exasperated wives ahead for the summer season. Better to get smaller and more reliable unless you are repair-savvy and break-down tolerant.

Now in this case, sounds like the guy has a good starter now that he knows the possibility of needing to repower soon and less than optimum performance. A good boat for the realistic buyer is not a good boat for the wishful thinker.
 

Denny of Pa

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Ironic that yu shuld be inquiring about my same Engine, and I love my 40 HP Force. , It moves my 16 foot Alumcraft bass boat accross Lake Okeechobee , FL at about 30 MPH , which is fast enough for me to get to any part of the lake i want to go in 1 hour or less, on less than 5 gallons of gas.

When you buy a Force you are actually buying a Mercury in disguise. ( It says so right on the side of the cowling : by Mercury Marine ) Why the name change for this motor, I do not know, but never the less a Mercury is what it is and if they are going to boldly proclaim that on the motor, I would not think that they would compromise thir good name in motors, by making something that would not hold up. As for yours from what i can see, it looks like it may be a bit ( but not too much ) undepowered on that boat, but if the price is right, I don't see that it is that bad of a deal. just sit back and enjoy the ride. I would still bet that even on that boat you should be able to do 25 mPh or so, but it largely depends on the prop you using as well . But if it is really a big hang up to you and you turn it down let me know what they want for it and maybe i will buy it myself. ;)

Denny
 

JimS123

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Ironic that yu shuld be inquiring about my same Engine, and I love my 40 HP Force. , It moves my 16 foot Alumcraft bass boat accross Lake Okeechobee , FL at about 30 MPH , which is fast enough for me to get to any part of the lake i want to go in 1 hour or less, on less than 5 gallons of gas.

When you buy a Force you are actually buying a Mercury in disguise. ( It says so right on the side of the cowling : by Mercury Marine ) Why the name change for this motor, I do not know, but never the less a Mercury is what it is and if they are going to boldly proclaim that on the motor, I would not think that they would compromise thir good name in motors, by making something that would not hold up. As for yours from what i can see, it looks like it may be a bit ( but not too much ) undepowered on that boat, but if the price is right, I don't see that it is that bad of a deal. just sit back and enjoy the ride. I would still bet that even on that boat you should be able to do 25 mPh or so, but it largely depends on the prop you using as well . But if it is really a big hang up to you and you turn it down let me know what they want for it and maybe i will buy it myself. ;)

Denny
Denny, you have the right idea. But before one of the Force haters jump in, I'll come to your defense. I believe given the age of the motor in question here, its probably a rebranded Chrysler. Mercury brought the Force line under their wing I believe in the 1990's as a low cost alternative. Even then they left the powerheads alone and just used Merc parts for the lower end.

What you said about the prop is the key. As long as the rpms are correct, the motor will pull that boat just fine.
 

ezmobee

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

When you buy a Force you are actually buying a Mercury in disguise.

This is simply not true. Yes they may have shared some parts from the Mercury parts bin in the later years but you most certainly are not getting a "Mercury in disguise".
 

Expidia

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

In my opinion. you don't ever buy an old rig for the outboard on it. You buy it for the condition of the boat. You buy it knowing the motor is going to be junk sooner or later because it's over 23 years old. We are not talking about a lawnmower here. The outboard is a lifesaving device. If you wind up on lake Erie and a storm blows up and the motor dies so could you and your family.

This thread is gong back and forth on the NAME of the motor, who cares what the name of any 23 year old motor is? If the motor dies it goes to the junk yard or on Craigs List for parts. It doesn't go to a shop for a power head rebuild.

Test drive the boat. 23 year old rivets can leak. Worry more about a 23 year old riveted aluminum boat that might be leaking from age.

If the boat is tight offer him 1500 letting him know that you are going to have to replace that 23 year old motor and re-power the rig with at least 70% of the max HP rating.

What's the book value of the rig as it is? If it's 2000 then offer him 1800. Leave yourself room to negotiate. They more you talk him down, that savings will put a nice dent in the price of a 10 year old motor. Sell the outboard on Craigslist before it's junk for $500 as soon as you can budget yourself to buy something within 10 years old that comes with the controls and cables already attached. Many boaters up sizing to a different brand will include the cables and controls.

To the other posters that feel the brand name is so important ignoring it's age. Keep in mind this guy is not planning to venture out "On Golden Pond" he's immediately looking to go out on "Lake Erie" yet. The first thing I would budget for is getting a Sea Tow subscription, a VHS fixed radio and an 8 foot Antenna in a 23 year old boat and motor.
 

Denny of Pa

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

You buy it knowing the motor is going to be junk sooner or later because it's over 23 years old.

And somtime the >> Old << is better than the new. A good friend of mine is a collector of VERY Old outboard motors, some dateing back to the 18th century and believe it not they ALL !!!!! run. At last count I believe he told me he had about 30 of them, and unlike the newest greatest tinker toy on the market like my brand new pick up truck that that the gas gauge quit on me in 4 years, while my 1949 Chev PU gas gauge still works just fine goes to prove that the latest greatest is not always superior. Put it this way on my last trip to the Big "O" ( January 2010 ) I put in the water and was on the lake well ahead of a Bass Classic Pro running a late model $50 grand Ranger which was still sitting in the parking lot trying to get his 200 HP Yamahah DI running, while I was already out on the lake fishing. so what does that tell ya about my !! 20 yr old FORCE !! The way i looked at it, he should have been glad that I was out there ahead of him cause he might have needed a tow back in ;)

Denny
 

JimS123

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

And somtime the >> Old << is better than the new. A good friend of mine is a collector of VERY Old outboard motors, some dateing back to the 18th century and believe it not they ALL !!!!! run. At last count I believe he told me he had about 30 of them, and unlike the newest greatest tinker toy on the market like my brand new pick up truck that that the gas gauge quit on me in 4 years, while my 1949 Chev PU gas gauge still works just fine goes to prove that the latest greatest is not always superior. Put it this way on my last trip to the Big "O" ( January 2010 ) I put in the water and was on the lake well ahead of a Bass Classic Pro running a late model $50 grand Ranger which was still sitting in the parking lot trying to get his 200 HP Yamahah DI running, while I was already out on the lake fishing. so what does that tell ya about my !! 20 yr old FORCE !! The way i looked at it, he should have been glad that I was out there ahead of him cause he might have needed a tow back in ;)

Denny

Well actually, I think Waterman was creditied with inventing the first outboard, circa about 1903. Ole Evinrude (the Henry Ford of outboards) founded his company in 1909. Nevertheless, the time period is a moot point.

Its interesting how many outboard enthusiasts there are. I'm sure the members of the Antique Outboard Motor Club are chuckling at this thread. I'm a collector as well. My collection just topped 60, and they all run too. Years range from 1919 to 2007.

Im my experience, condition, hours of usage, and how well it was cared for are key. And thats a big caveat! I personally only run 4 of my collection on a routine basis....a '52, a '65, an '84 and an '07. All are Evinrudes and all start the second pull every time. The '84 is a 9.9 trolling motor that I bought new and my log book shows it passed 600 hours last summer. The '52 is a 25 Big Twin that was the original power on my '52 garage kept Lyman. I don't know the hours, but based on the condition of the whole rig its pretty low. She runs Lake Erie often.

Force's may be old outdated technology, but at least its not a same period Mercury, which need constant tinkering and special tools. Actually, they are not much different than a 1950's JohhnyRude.
 

Expidia

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

And somtime the >> Old << is better than the new. A good friend of mine is a collector of VERY Old outboard motors, some dateing back to the 18th century and believe it not they ALL !!!!! run. At last count I believe he told me he had about 30 of them, and unlike the newest greatest tinker toy on the market like my brand new pick up truck that that the gas gauge quit on me in 4 years, while my 1949 Chev PU gas gauge still works just fine goes to prove that the latest greatest is not always superior. Put it this way on my last trip to the Big "O" ( January 2010 ) I put in the water and was on the lake well ahead of a Bass Classic Pro running a late model $50 grand Ranger which was still sitting in the parking lot trying to get his 200 HP Yamahah DI running, while I was already out on the lake fishing. so what does that tell ya about my !! 20 yr old FORCE !! The way i looked at it, he should have been glad that I was out there ahead of him cause he might have needed a tow back in ;)

Denny

No one does any poster any favors by suggesting to an inexperienced boater it's OK to buy a 23 year old outboard, put your friends and family on baord and head out on Lake Erie.

You want to collect outboards, great! You want to go out on waters that can become dangerous very quickly . . . in my opinion you hang off that transom the most reliable, well serviced outboard that you can afford.

I wonder how many tows the Seatow service does a season with 200 hp Yamahas or similar brand new outboards against a slew of boaters that head out with an old clunker of an outboard.

It's not like you're driving some old truck and it died and you just coast over to the side. Big waters become unforgiving very fast, especially in a small boat. The price paid is sometimes death!

Since I'm on the water about 150 hours a season, all too many times, it's some old clunker broken down with 4 or 5 guys on it, swigging beers. They try and flag me down and give them a tow. Just because of courtesy of the seas, I'll stop and call in for help for them on my VHS. I would never tow some old boat in and ruin my time out on the water. But I'd tow a newer rig in, because sometimes even new outboards breakdown.

If one thinks a 23 year old motor is going to be reliable and goes out ill equiped without a VHS radio, then they do it at their own peril. How do you call over another boat going by for help with a cell phone?
 

JimS123

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

If one thinks a 23 year old motor is going to be reliable and goes out ill equiped without a VHS radio, then they do it at their own peril. How do you call over another boat going by for help with a cell phone?

All very good advice. I boat Lake Erie all the time and I personally would never consider going out without a VHF AND a Cell phone....AND a 9.9 Kicker as well. Regardless of how old the boat is!

I don't know about SeaTow's statistics but the ONLY times I have ever needed assistance were with BRAND NEW equipment. Until my Mercruiser had all the bugs out of it I was stranded 3 times in the first 2 years. My buddy has a Formula with twin 454's and when it was new he had engine failures twice.

I think the key to this thread is that we're not talking about a 23 year old outboard that's all used up. Its a motor with light usage in pristime condition. Additionally, everybody likes to bash Forces and Bayliners.

But thats just an opinion. Seems like this thread is beating dead horses now.
 

ryanr623

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

Well thanks to all the replies, i decided against the boat. Since im boating in lake erie i wanted something a little deeper. I got a 1989 Stingray SVB 176. Not as pristine condition on the inside, but it is bigger, deeper, and has a mercruiser 3.0 engine rated at 130 hp. I got a better deal and i wont have any issues with the motor being underpowered. The guy used it on lake erie all the time, but bought a biger boat, so i got it for a steal.

On a side note: Are outboards really that unreliable compared to I/O engines? It seems like most of you guys wouldnt take anything but a brand new outboard on lake erie.
 

ezmobee

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Re: Help with choosing boat! Please!

On a side note: Are outboards really that unreliable compared to I/O engines? It seems like most of you guys wouldn't take anything but a brand new outboard on lake erie.

Not at all. I don't know where a lot of that opinion is coming from. I just sold my previous boat this past fall which had a '73 Johnson on it. We spent a bunch of money on it getting it fixed up when we bought it (it had been laid up for many years) but we then ran it for 5 trouble-free years and I sold it in great running condition. My "new" boat has an '81 Evinrude and I don't expect it to be anything less than reliable.
 
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