Help with Repairing a transom

mikastorm

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Messages
164
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Good for you. But if you really want to do it right , go back and take note of past post. These guys can really help you out. If you just want to slap it together , thats all up to you. Good luck and make it fun. John
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Here are some pics of my progress. I lowered the top down onto the hull, lined everything up. and now have the floor pieces cut and are in place, just not fastened yet

HPIM1245.jpg


HPIM1244.jpg

in this pic you can see what I was talking about, the side wall with the rotting supports.

HPIM1233.jpg

Also in this one.

HPIM1234.jpg
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

I believe after I reinforce the back part of the splash well and glass it in, it will provide good support for the transom. the motor that is going on it is a 50hp johnson which doesn't use any bolts, it has two screw clamps to hold it to the transom. it came factory with a 75hp in 1961. this boat is really old! I dont plan to do any skiing with it. just to go for a cruse and some fishing.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Its up to you, experienced people here are obligated to point out the little mistakes before you seal it all up, you can do it any way you want.

My concern is the area beneath the bilge, the transom to hull sides and keel is the most critical joint on the boat, thats where the thrust loads are transfered from the engine to the whole hull.

Your transom as it is now is not glassed either to the actual hull sides or the bottom, its glassed to liner. I don't know that it would fail.
You will be depending on the liner to hull attachment points , maybe they're good and strong but they weren't designed to hold the engine thrust at bay so I'd have to wonder how good they are.

Second issue is you don't know the condition of the structure beneath that bottom liner, most likely rotted. I think its a safe conclusion that the transom is glassed to a liner that sits on rotted substructure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a champion of shortcuts and cheapo materials but I had to get down to the bottom of the damage when I did mine.
Its a pain, I know.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Its up to you, experienced people here are obligated to point out the little mistakes before you seal it all up, you can do it any way you want.

My concern is the area beneath the bilge, the transom to hull sides and keel is the most critical joint on the boat, thats where the thrust loads are transfered from the engine to the whole hull.

Your transom as it is now is not glassed either to the actual hull sides or the bottom, its glassed to liner. I don't know that it would fail.
You will be depending on the liner to hull attachment points , maybe they're good and strong but they weren't designed to hold the engine thrust at bay so I'd have to wonder how good they are.

Second issue is you don't know the condition of the structure beneath that bottom liner, most likely rotted. I think its a safe conclusion that the transom is glassed to a liner that sits on rotted substructure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a champion of shortcuts and cheapo materials but I had to get down to the bottom of the damage when I did mine.
Its a pain, I know.

I see what you are saying, I plan to take the rear floor back up and add some reinfrocement to the bottom of the transom onto the stingers. it wasn't a very good idea on my part to glass the bilge area to the transom. as for the sides, I tried to seperate the liner your talking about, its the actual hull that has been painted on the inside. as well as the very middle of the bilge area, that the bottom of the boat. it's only about 1/4" thick measuring from the lower drain to the bottom side of the hull from outside the boat. I will have to cut the side wall supports out before removing the floor panel, its preventing me from raising the floor from inside the boat! but I plan to replace them anyway. :D

as for reinforcing the transom, would adding a 2x4 along side of the stingers butting up to the transom and glassing them in on each side of the bilge area, be a good support? I could add them at an angle too, but would need to modify the floor panel. I'll take some pics of what I'm talking about later today.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

The paint or whatever the coating is on the hull sides needs to sanded off completely before any glass in applied, even if its gel coat you should sand it off and have a glass to glass bond.

Did you go back and read other posts on this subject to get an idea of what needs to be done?

I don't want you to do all the work and then have it fail far sooner than it should.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

I see what you are saying, I plan to take the rear floor back up and add some reinfrocement to the bottom of the transom onto the stingers. it wasn't a very good idea on my part to glass the bilge area to the transom. as for the sides, I tried to seperate the liner your talking about, its the actual hull that has been painted on the inside. as well as the very middle of the bilge area, that the bottom of the boat. it's only about 1/4" thick measuring from the lower drain to the bottom side of the hull from outside the boat. I will have to cut the side wall supports out before removing the floor panel, its preventing me from raising the floor from inside the boat! but I plan to replace them anyway. :D

as for reinforcing the transom, would adding a 2x4 along side of the stingers butting up to the transom and glassing them in on each side of the bilge area, be a good support? I could add them at an angle too, but would need to modify the floor panel. I'll take some pics of what I'm talking about later today.

Ok, so they sprayed gelcoat on the inside , grind it down.:D

You might want to look at doing a couple of knee braces from transom to stringers or hull bottom. See pic.
 

Attachments

  • knees.jpg
    knees.jpg
    40.7 KB · Views: 0

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Ok, so they sprayed gelcoat on the inside , grind it down.:D

You might want to look at doing a couple of knee braces from transom to stringers or hull bottom. See pic.

I just might need to install some knee braces! I pulled up the floor panel and studied the bilge area for a bit, took out my dremel tool and went to work!!

carefully cut out the bilge area so that I could glass it back in place. and cleaned up underneath. everything is open now. give me a bit and I'll post some pics for suggestions. I thought about even adding another board flat against the transom like a 2x12 and then put two knee braces to that from the stingers.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Ok, here are the photos!

HPIM1246.jpg

I pulled back the floor and had a good look at the bilge area.

HPIM1247.jpg

Here shows that I carefully cut it out so that I can glass it back in.

HPIM1251.jpg

A closeup after I cleaned up.

HPIM1250.jpg

Another closeup.

HPIM1248.jpg

here is the part I cut out!

HPIM1249.jpg

And guess what I found! y'all were right, it was all rotten underneath.

give me some suggestions on what I should do to reinforce the transom. I was thinking of adding two knee braces and maybe doing away with the original bilge are I cut out. or just adding two braces to the transom under the bilge area allowing me to reuse the piece I cut out, that is after I replace the plywood on it!
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Well, after cleaning up the transom and preparing it to glass it to the bottom of the hull, I took some time to figure out how to add the extra supports. here are two pics of an idea.

HPIM1254.jpg

Here I clamped two 4' 2x4's along the top edge of the middle stinger and butted them to the transom. I could mount them using some screws or lag bolts and then glass over them to water proof them.


HPIM1255.jpg

This one shows those 2x4's at an angle from the transom to the center stinger. Don't know which way would be better, but both ways still allows me to reuse the bilge piece I cut out.

or after glassing the bottom of the transom, would that be enough alone?
I can glass in some small gussets (triangle piece of wood) under the bilge too.
I'll cut one and take a photo to show.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

ok, here is some gussits cut from a 2x4 about 1' long and 3" high.
i could place them where they would be under the bilge area and also attach them to the two outer stingers.

HPIM1258.jpg


HPIM1259.jpg


HPIM1260.jpg


would this work for a good reinforcement?
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

ok, here is some gussits cut from a 2x4 about 1' long and 3" high.
i could place them where they would be under the bilge area and also attach them to the two outer stingers.

HPIM1258.jpg


HPIM1259.jpg


HPIM1260.jpg


would this work for a good reinforcement?

yeh, more importantly is the glassing from transom to hull, grind the area and wash with acetone before glassing the transom to hull joint. Done right you don't need the knee braces but they wouldn't hurt.
You can build a new bilge area with 1/2 ply and glass it then seal with bilge paint.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

since I'm new to this game! how far out should I grind on the hull and the transom? I'm guessing 6" on both to make the joint. And I still use the mat for this, not the cloth right?

I used the mat over the transom, thats why it looks rough. I see that when this boat was built, the woven cloth was almost everywhere. its the same price for mat or cloth at home depot. $6.49 I believe for 9 sq ft.

also does the bilge area need to be reinforced with plywood? would I be able to just remove all the rotten wood from the bottom of the fiberglass shell that I cut out and use that and add a layer of glass over it? I don't think there will be any weight on that part since it's under the splash well.
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Originally that bilge was made from ply then glassed, all you have left is the glass, is it sturdy to handle, if so its probably fine. It doesn't do anything but hold water. You could try a layer of mat on the wood side if the wood is mostly gone. Be carefull it doesn't twist or warp out of shape.

I like working with cloth for joints, but I'll use mat if thats all I got,
better something than nothing.
You'll find the 90 deg joints are easier if you form a curve with putty,
cloth doesn't like sharp turns.

You're supposed to start with a narrow strip of cloth first, then lay a wider strip over that, then another wider. 3 inch, 5 inch and 8 inch strips or bigger.
That spreads the load like leaf springs.
Thats the benefit of using unwaxed poly resin, no sanding between coats, just keep mixing and slapping it on. Get the unwaxed at any boat supply store or mail order it.

I can see you left the bottom of the old transom wood with the drain tube, naughty boy.
I did the same.:eek:

I dried the wood out around the tube (heatgun) and drenched it with resin thinned out with acetone, repeated applications until it stopped soaking in, then run the cloth right over it, cut the drain tube open when it all cures.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Originally that bilge was made from ply then glassed, all you have left is the glass, is it sturdy to handle, if so its probably fine. It doesn't do anything but hold water. You could try a layer of mat on the wood side if the wood is mostly gone. Be carefull it doesn't twist or warp out of shape.

I like working with cloth for joints, but I'll use mat if thats all I got,
better something than nothing.
You'll find the 90 deg joints are easier if you form a curve with putty,
cloth doesn't like sharp turns.

You're supposed to start with a narrow strip of cloth first, then lay a wider strip over that, then another wider. 3 inch, 5 inch and 8 inch strips or bigger.
That spreads the load like leaf springs.
Thats the benefit of using unwaxed poly resin, no sanding between coats, just keep mixing and slapping it on. Get the unwaxed at any boat supply store or mail order it.

I can see you left the bottom of the old transom wood with the drain tube, naughty boy.
I did the same.:eek:

I dried the wood out around the tube (heatgun) and drenched it with resin thinned out with acetone, repeated applications until it stopped soaking in, then run the cloth right over it, cut the drain tube open when it all cures.

ummmmm.... :redface: if you look carefully, there isn't any wood where the drain hole is! the plywood wasen't long enough to reach. I had planned to fill it in with something sturdy like wood filler or fiberglass filler. I still can cut a piece of wood and fit it in and glass it too.

well I just ground into the hull, I only went between the two stingers that extended to the transom. I went about 4" on the hull and then layered up on the cloth that covers the stingers. that was I will get a good seal to keep water and other things from getting under the glass! I may need to go further out, you say 8" for the final layer.
do I need to do the same on the other side of the stingers, that has been glassed in already but glassed to the layer that covers the stingers. it's only 12" wide on each side.

HPIM1262.jpg


I thought about using the knee braces on the other side of the stingers, what's your opinion?

by the way, I see other threads where people have used a "thumbnail view" of the pics, how to you use that? I am using photobucket.com to load the pics here!
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

I found some very usefull info on this page and wanted to share it with everyone
http://www.hares.net/boat/waterproofing.htm

Read through it! I wished I had found this page before I just coated my transom with resin to water proof it! I plan to use this method on the floor:eek:
 

jonesg

Admiral
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
7,198
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

I found some very usefull info on this page and wanted to share it with everyone
http://www.hares.net/boat/waterproofing.htm

Read through it! I wished I had found this page before I just coated my transom with resin to water proof it! I plan to use this method on the floor:eek:

uh, I just told you to do that with the wood around the drain tube.

Its not going to work for a deck as the deck flexes and the resin will crack, just be sure to use glass with the resin or you'll be doing the deck again within 3 yrs.

For the area around the drain tube, clean it out apply resin putty, lookup peanut butter or buy some marine bondo, then glass over it. Either way, fill the area first then glass over it and open the tube later.

If you grind 4 inches out on the hull and 4 inches up the transom then thats good for an 8 inch strip of glass. But start with a smaller strip and work outward with bigger strips.

Anywhere you didn't grind before glassing should be re-done, they are all critical. This only applies if you failed to grind the hull glasswork before applying resin and glass, if you ground everything beforehand its good to go.

If you didn't grind before glassing you should be able to pry the glass off with a steel scraper, it will probably pop right off. I might try and cut it at the joint if its bonded good to the transom wood.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

The information supplied in that link is poor at best.

Adding that amount of acetone to resin pretty much turns it to trash and then saying don't worry about the amount of catalyst you add because it makes no difference is complete ignorance of the chemistry.

As you add any type of solvent to resin it begins to degrade the physical properties, this means it becomes less water resistant and depending on the solvent, it may get softer or more brittle. The other problem with this ?secret mix? is since polyester resin doesn?t start off with a great deal of strength and by adding acetone you?re doing nothing to help this fact, it will be much more likely to crack as the wood expands and contracts or flexes. Very short term it may seem great ?I sprinkled water on it? long term you just wasted your time and money.
 

dbrannon79

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
36
Re: Help with Repairing a transom

Take a look at a couple of pics posted by berry, scroll down to the last 2 pics, this is what you are looking to do, grind the gelcoat off the hull sides and extend the glass out on the bottom of the hull from the transom.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=348422

that last pic looks like a professional job! wow. man I sure hate to pull that top back up but if I want this done right I guess I need to! I don't plan on laying under the splash well grinding and sanding, breathing that dust!!

I will give it a good look tomorrow, I might be able to get away with not pulling it up again, using the shop-vac. I can get to the sides but might not be able to reach the top 2 or 3 inches. maybe I can get away with that! cutting the stingers back about 8" just wide enough to get the grinder in, and after its done, glassing a splice in it's place butting the end up to the existing stinger can serve as a brace for the transom. if that will work I'll start first thing in the morning.
 
Top