High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

[LaynDoor]

1st post... been lurking for a few days... gotta say this is the most comprehensive boating forum I have found on the net... Tried search for this question, found alot of info.. but couldnt find the answer to my specific situation.

Existing setup - 2006 Crownline 202, 5.0L, 1.62 ratio Alpha 1, 21P alu 3 blade prop that came with the boat.... This is a "Family" owned boat however I only use it for wakeboarding and the other user just cruises with it... I have NEVER had the boat at top speed (never felt the need) so i dont know where im at with top end... But, im assuming im proped correctly (and running in the correct RPM range) from the factory so the 21" three blade is what im basing my decisions off of... When we are wakeboarding we commonly have about 1000lbs in the boat... When the other user is out in the boat they have about 400lbs in the boat... I do NOT have a marina that will let me demo so I am trying to make the most educated decision I can.

The problem(s) - 1) Boat gets up on plane "ok" not great when pulling a rider from the transom... but we waste alot of time/gas going WOT to get the rider out of the hole and then backing the throttle back down to get to 21 MPH... got a wakeboard tower installed this year and I expect this to get worse because of the leverage the rider will have on the boat.
2) We are constantly playing with the throttle to keep a steady speed due to the rider cutting in and out... a hard cut by the rider will slow the boat down by 2-3 MPH which means the driver is constanly playing with the throttle to maintain speed.
3) Beginers are extremely hard to pull because I have a hard time staying on plane (due to #2 in many cases)... Tabs are out of the question, they ruin the wake and defeat our purpose.

What Im looking for - 1) Up on plane faster with less effort
2) Steady speed with little throttle adjustment
3) Stay on plane at lower speeds.

My questions - 1) Will the High Five do these things im looking for? Everything I have read says yes.... Experiences???
2) 21" or 19" Pitch? Pros / Cons? I understand that Merc says to use the same pich when making this swap (because of dia), but since i never see top speed @ WOT are there any other advantages to going to a 19" rather than the 21"? Engine not working as hard?
3) I have heard docking is more dificult with the High Five. This is not an issue for me however it is for the other user of the boat (not a very good driver in the close quarters of the slip)... would the lower pitch provide any relief for this?

Sounds like im trying to talk myself into the 19 huh?

Thanks in advance guys... looking forward to putting the boat in the water in the coming weeks with a new prop on it!

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Without rpm at WOT we can't tell you if you're propped correctly. A smaller pitch will help you get out of the hole quicker by allowing the engine rpm to come up more quickly...but if it over revs at wot....not a good situation if someone else likes to take it there.

The problems you describe are just indicative of an I/O and the type of boat/hull you have. With an I/O all of the weight is in the rear of the boat which makes the bow rare up when you come out of the hole. There really isn't much you can do to solve these problems. A prop change isn't going to do it. When pulling a skier/boarder with an I/O you will have to hit the throttle hard and then back off....just the nature of the beast. Staying on plane at lower speeds cannot be accomplished with a prop change, the hull dictates the speed at which it planes.

What you are experiencing is exactly why Inboards are better suited to towing....the engine is in the middle for better weight balance, and loads of torque so the skier can't pull the boat down as much. Even with an inboard, you have to make small adjustments to the throttle to maintain constant speed when towing a skier.

My suggestion is to keep as much weight forward as you can to help push the bow down and help get on plane quicker.

I've never heard of a prop making docking easier or harder...that's a new one

 

[LaynDoor]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Agree with 99% of what you said... as for being proped correctly, the boat was bought by us new... factory orig prop (still in amazing condition for its age)... boats not in the water yet so I cant go take a buzz down the lake to get the stats... With the 21" we have on there we have never hit the rev limiter... with the 19" dunno...

I keep hoping it will turn into a v-drive wake boat... but to my dismay... still an I/O... lol... so I have to accept its inhearent shortcomings... Im just trying to make the best of it for my aplication... and factory is hardly ever optimal.

Maybe my loooong post infered that my expectations are higher then they really are... Im looking for a prop that will HOLD speed better than the one I have... I mean, its not like I have a 4 cyl... its a 5.0! lol... I dont think its illogical to think that it should have enough snot to hold at 21 mph with a 180 wakeboarder behind it... soooo i have to think my issue isnt power, its transfering the power to the water. No?

When pulling beginers I can plane out at around 18 mph... hull shape isnt completely stoping me there... i can do it... my problem is, staying there... any little outside influence seems to slow us down and take us off plane... which makes learning even tougher... so agian, holding speed being the issue.

We are putting 500lbs of ballast in the walkway this year... should help get the nose down.

High Five bites harder, making delicate adjustments in speed / direction around the docks a little more difficult... is what I heard... but looking for confirmation.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I skied and boarded behind an old 68 Starcraft 140 hp I/O (4 cyl) so I understand about making do... Had to learn to drag a leg to get up on slalom.

I don't have any experience with the a High Five prop so I can't give any first hand experience......but....increasing your prop from 3 to 5 blades and reducing pitch from 21 to 19 may give you worse low end performance than you have now. I'm assuming it's the same diameter. If you think about it, you drastically increase the blade area which may more than compensate for the 2" of pitch reduction. I don't know if anyone can say for sure what the end result would be, and if you are currently over propped...meaning your wot rpm is too low..(we don't know this)...you may see no improvement or it could get worse....I just don't know. Typically given the same diameter and pitch, going from 3 to 4 blades will drop your rpm by 50-100 approx. I know that OJ makes props for inboards, and what they do on a 4 blade is reduce the diameter and play with prop cupping to correct for this, such that there is no difference in rpm between the 3 and 4 blade...for example they'll call it a 14 x 16 4 blade, but it's actually more like 13.7 x 15.5 and it will perform the same as a 3 blade 14 x 16. The advantage is it runs smoother and gives a better hole shot in theory....some people swear it makes a huge difference...I'm about to try a 4 blade on my inboard to see if this is all that noticeable...I haven't ordered it yet though. I guess what I'm saying is the only way to know is to try it...or find someone with the same boat/engine/drive that has one. It's very hard to predict with certainty because so many variables are changing between your two props. Looking at the web site for the high five they recommend it for 6 cylinder stern drive runabouts....? Not exactly what you have...so...? If you can't take it back...your stuck with an expensive paper weight.....or something you have to sell used. I'd try to find a place that will allow you to try it and send it back if it's not the right prop for the boat.....Discount Inboard Marine has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee....If you try it and don't like it you can send it back and exchange it. Undamaged of course. They don't sell anything but inboard stuff....what's iboats policy? Can you try it and send it back for a different prop if it doesn't work? Call them and ask if they have any recommendations.

As far as docking goes, I can't imagine you'll notice any difference at all.....reducing the pitch would move you less distance over the same number of revs so...?

 

[Lawnmedic]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I would consider putting perfect pass on the boat to help maintain a constant speed for boarding. When my nephews perfect pass wasn't working on his Master Craft, I had to constantly adjust throttle while they were boarding. My brother bought a High 5 for his deck boat with a wake tower just for when the kids were boarding. I believe he went with the same pitch. He gained a heck of a hole shot, but lost over 5 mph on top end.

 

[fossill]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Mines an 18 foot 4.3L sterndrive, 2008 model.
It came with a 14x23 aluminum 3 blade merc prop from the factory.
WOT rpm were in bottom end of limits.
I put on a 19 pitch high five and Wot rpm is right at 4800 with 50 percent load in boat.
This prop runs great overall. Holeshot is nuts.
And no more "throttle jockeying" when pulling tubers and boarders.
Speedloss was about 5 mph.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Mines an 18 foot 4.3L sterndrive, 2008 model.
It came with a 14x23 aluminum 3 blade merc prop from the factory.
WOT rpm were in bottom end of limits.
I put on a 19 pitch high five and Wot rpm is right at 4800 with 50 percent load in boat.
This prop runs great overall. Holeshot is nuts.
And no more "throttle jockeying" when pulling tubers and boarders.
Speedloss was about 5 mph.

How much rpm did you gain at wot with a 4" pitch reduction and the change in # of blades?

 

[Pacoson71]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I have a 20ft centurion falcon with a 200hp yami outboard.
The High Five 19 pitch will bring two skiers out of the water with no problem.
Top speed is still over 55 with a 5200 RPM limit.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I have a 20ft centurion falcon with a 200hp yami outboard.
The High Five 19 pitch will bring two skiers out of the water with no problem.
Top speed is still over 55 with a 5200 RPM limit.

Apples and oranges....comparing an outboard to an I/O

 

[LaynDoor]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Small update... Found a 21" High Five on EBay for $225... listed as used but looks brand new... Couldnt pass it up!

At that price, I can afford to find a 19" to try out too... and I can just sell whicever I like the least.

1980Coronado, the High Five is a smaller Dia... so Merc reccomends replacing with the same pitch when going from a 3 blade to the High Five... I guess I will find out!

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Score!

I figured they were doing something similar with dia. reduction as with the inboard props......I'm interested in knowing how it works out for you. I just ordered a 14 x 16 4-blade for the Coronado to replace a reworked 3 blade that was too small because they reduced both the diameter and the pitch...previous owner must have hit something and reworked the prop. He bent the shaft too, but I get to fix that! Original prop was a 14 x 15 3 blade. My gut tells me 14x16 4-blade is going to be too much prop for the 454 big block...but again the diameter isn't actually 14, I think it's 13.7...so we'll see how it performs. The experts are all telling me I'm going to love it. I'm skeptical, but willing to give it a shot.

Good luck and let us know how it works out!

 

[fossill]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

How much rpm did you gain at wot with a 4" pitch reduction and the change in # of blades?

Originally it was pulling 4400 rpm with a 50% load in the boat and 4200rpm fully loaded up. Right now it runs 4800 rpm.

 

[fossill]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Small update... Found a 21" High Five on EBay for $225... listed as used but looks brand new... Couldnt pass it up!

At that price, I can afford to find a 19" to try out too... and I can just sell whicever I like the least.

1980Coronado, the High Five is a smaller Dia... so Merc reccomends replacing with the same pitch when going from a 3 blade to the High Five... I guess I will find out!

Can't go wrong with that. I got mine for $250 brand new, un opened in the box on year end clearance and thought I had nothing to lose for that price as I could easily get rid of it if it didnt work out. Lot's of super deals out there.

 

[1980Coronado]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

Originally it was pulling 4400 rpm with a 50% load in the boat and 4200rpm fully loaded up. Right now it runs 4800 rpm.

Interesting....4" of pitch should increase rpm by 600-800 rpm....so basically the extra blades are reducing by about 200-400 rpm......some of that rpm increase could be resultant of a diameter reduction too. Still interesting to compare.

 

[h20mobius]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I have a similar setup - 5.0L Mercruiser Alpha 1 in a Maxum 20ft I/O. Factory came with 21P, but I'm now all the way down to a 17P. I lost a decent amount of top end, but it's worth it IMO since before I sometimes couldn't plane at all if there were two people sitting in back. Planes faster, tracks better, and it's not embarrassing having to ask people to "move to the front" all the time. Considering going to a 4-blade aluminum now...

One other thing to consider (the experts may have a better opinion here), but I added a Stingray plate onto the I/O - helped a decent amount actually. Planes faster, tracks better... the only disadvantage is it cavitates a little more frequently on tight turns coming back through the wash.

CB

 

[dca11y]

Re: High Five for Wakeboarding? Pitch?

I have nearly the same setup as H20, 5.0 Mercruiser 230 hp, Alpha 1 on 20 footer. I have a 19p on it now, you think I would gain some hole shot and get better performance while pulling wakeboarders going to a 17p? Seems hard to find a cheap used 4 blade for an I/O. I put a couple sand bags in front at 90 lbs a piece and have a 600 lb fat sack in the floor compartment. Any reccomendations? My engine runs at 4600 rpm WOT with me and the loaded weight in an empty boat which is the top end of recommended rpms. Usually aren't more than 3 or 4 people in the boat since we have to get up at 6am on the weekends to wakeboard.