Hillary's Health Care Plan

[bekosh]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

In many European countries,The rights to housing ,food, basic medical care, education and work are the constitutional rights of every citizen.
Of course these privileges are paid for through taxes.How Else?.

You get it correct in the second sentence. These are privileges, not rights.

How can you have a right to housing? Only if you own the house.
How about food? Only if you own the farm.
Medical? Only if you are the Doctor.
Education? Teacher.
Work? Buiseness owner.

Nothing can be a right, if you would have to force someone else to provide it. That would be no better than slavery. And in a word that is exactly what communism or socialism are at the core.

 

[Gabby]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

I lived in Germany for four years. Yep, they get social medicine and a bunch of other programs. They are also taxed at about 50%. They also LIVE on credit. A car loan can run into 10 years as a norm. Otherwise, they couldn't afford the payments. Many Germans can't even own a home. Compared to America, it's a joke. A friends wife was pregnant while I was there and we went to the hospital. She couldn't have a private or even a semi private room. She was in a room with 6 other women, and the babies were still kept in a nursery down the hall. It was like 1935 America, with no say in what happened.

Every place on earth that has tried the Utopian experiment of any type of ism, save capatalism, has suffered catastophic results. Look at the USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, etc.

It isn't society's job to pay for and take care of everyone. Many people in this country aren't contributing members of society. Tough as that sounds, if it was the animal kindgdom, they would call that natural selection. If you aren't capable enough to get a job, get some training or education in a country with THESE advantages, then maybe nature is thinning out the herd a bit, eh?

I'll be convinced I need to pay for others healthcare when others decide my home, truck, boat, lifestyle, food choices and material goods aren't good enough for me and allow me to sit on my behind while they pay for something better. Lord, save us all from the social scientists.

 

[Kalifornyakid]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

"It is always nice to see how good Christians interpret these words of their teacher and master. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself" "

Not wanting to support freeloaders is not the same as not wanting to help out people who need help. The bible teaches you to "get your house in order first, then see to others." Kinda hard to do when the gubmmit takes 33% of my income and spends it like it's not theirs. (read "squanders")

 

[Gabby]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

KK, living a Christian life means taking care of people, I agree. And helping them. I agree. But when the government mandates it, and takes it from us, and we have no say, that isn't the same thing. Remember, the government is no secular. There IS NO religion there. If I wish to give to charity I will, and I do. But Uncle Sugar isn't supposed to be in teh charity business. And if you're only giving up 33% consider yourself lucky.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

I lived in Germany for four years. Yep, they get social medicine and a bunch of other programs. They are also taxed at about 50%. They also LIVE on credit. A car loan can run into 10 years as a norm. Otherwise, they couldn't afford the payments. Many Germans can't even own a home. Compared to America, it's a joke. A friends wife was pregnant while I was there and we went to the hospital. She couldn't have a private or even a semi private room. She was in a room with 6 other women, and the babies were still kept in a nursery down the hall. It was like 1935 America, with no say in what happened.

Every place on earth that has tried the Utopian experiment of any type of ism, save capatalism, has suffered catastophic results. Look at the USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, etc.

It isn't society's job to pay for and take care of everyone. Many people in this country aren't contributing members of society. Tough as that sounds, if it was the animal kindgdom, they would call that natural selection. If you aren't capable enough to get a job, get some training or education in a country with THESE advantages, then maybe nature is thinning out the herd a bit, eh?

I'll be convinced I need to pay for others healthcare when others decide my home, truck, boat, lifestyle, food choices and material goods aren't good enough for me and allow me to sit on my behind while they pay for something better. Lord, save us all from the social scientists.

Gabby you brought up some valid points.
But please do make this calculation.Calculate the amount of money you pay yearly for medical expenses,including insurance and add to that the cost of educating your kids,throw the yearly expenses you spend on tolls in for good measure.Now take all these expenses and add them to your yearly tax bill.How much more than 33% of your income will that be?
As far as every place in the world that has suffered catastrophic results from Utopian experiments.Your examples are few and poor.The USSR tried and failed.Cuba tried and was strangled by Big Brother next door,North Korea is a feudal state where communism is used to starve and suppress so a very few can live like paranoid kings(no Utopian experiments there).Western Europe did not fare that bad, but does have some of the experiment mixed with a healthy dose of capitalism.
The culture and religion that taught me the values which I adhere to,tries to raise humanity above the level of the animal kingdom.So does Christianity.I would not want the USA to fall back into that animal kingdom.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

This article right Here,....Explains what I see as the Biggest Problem with Health Care in America..........

I Don't see a problem with Health Insurance,......Or My lack of it.........

I see the Problem as the Screwing of the American People by our Health Care System............

The Tree Climber in that article was handed a Bill for 30-odd Thousand Dollars,+ he Settled for What,.... Less than $7000.00........

That's the Problem...........

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

In many European countries,The rights to housing ,food, basic medical care, education and work are the constitutional rights of every citizen.
Of course these privileges are paid for through taxes.How Else?
As far as the medical care is concerned,excluding university hospitals,the government does not actually do the care giving.
It just put legislature in place through which every person has the right to medical care.When the wages reach a higher level,then by law not only does the wage earner pay the basic fees to a private sick fund,HMO,or whatever they are called, he also pays additional insurance and has the right to more privileges.
We see that the government does not do the actual care giving and it is not involved in the patient /doctor choice or relationship.
The government does control the fees that a doctor is allowed to charge.In return there is no malpractice legislation as we know it here.The government also controls the drug pricing policies.
Because most doctors have had their schooling paid for by the tax payers,there are no astronomic loans to pay back.
I could go on,but I think that you get the gist.
All in all,medical care in Europe costs only about 30% of what it costs here and the average expectancy of Western Europeans is a few years higher than that of the Average American.
When Europeans choose to go totally private,they have that choice,but very few choose to do so.
As far as high taxes are concerned.It is a two way street.People also get a much better return for their tax money ,like for instance free education and usually,there are far more checks and balances in place.

[colour=blue]Rolmops, Do you have any idea what the unemployment rates are in those countries that you admire sooooo much? How about the rate of growth of their GDPs over the last 20 years? Answer: They are in the toilet!! They don't pay for their national defence AT ALL, they look to us for defence, (at our expence BTW), n' knash their teeth n' whine when we take action to save their sorry butts. In fact, if you took all our troops out of Europe right after 1945 they would have fallen on their Socialist faces!! Think about how much of our national treasure paid for the families of our servicemen stationed there? Why do ya think they get six week paid vacations? They leave their old people in hot apartments to die while on vacation. When ya only work at half speed ya live longer, BTW. Be carefull of what ya wish for: Rolmops. Ya might get France! Where ya have ta hide at night while yer car is burning and the police are attacked, and yer affraid to put cartoons in the news paper! Not much here for ol' Murky to admire, but: I guess I'm real different then you in how I look at the world! Regards! JR[/colour]

Hello Mr Old merc.
An observation is not an opinion.

[colour=blue]Not sure what ya mean here Rolmops.[/colour]

As a matter of fact,I live here and not there.(The fishing here is better)

[colour=blue]I guess that is a reason one could cornsider. Fishin' is important, but not as high as other things on my list of priorities. But: to each his own![/colour]

You are however wrong in the economic analysis of Europe.

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmmmm, wrong eh? After 22 years in investment banking the big guns tended to look at employment levels n production where there is just no comparison between the two areas. The USA just kills 'em cornsistantly. Guess I should go back to Kindergarten. Sorry: I'm such a fool Rolmops. Ya know it's hard to understand the real big things when ya only have a single brain cell n' all.[/colour]

Looking at todays exchange rates between the Dollar and the Euro we see that it will cost you roughly $1.25 to buy a Euro today.Five years ago it cost a European 1.25 euro to buy a Dollar.That would imply that their economy is quite strong.

[colour=blue]There is a lot more to currency analysis then a couple of sentences. I'm such a fool with only a single brian cell that I guess a brand new currency was overvalued when it kick started :} RIGHT MR EXPERT?[/colour]

In Europe you will find synthesis called social democracy,it is far closer to the american system than it is to the russian communist system.

[colour=blue]Hey Bud, ya got some smoke? Ol' Murky thinks he could find somethin' real purdy if he could only smoke what yer smokin'. Murky might even turn Liberal if he smoked enough of it. Is that what happend ta you Rolmops? 8)8)8) Jus' kiddin' with ya. I don't agree with yer analysis. But you did come up with a very interesting argument, that easily could trick the Liberals, n' some uninformed wobblies n' possibly a Cornservative or two. Great Try, (n' I actually mean it)! JR 8)8)8)[/colour]

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

I lived in Germany for four years. Yep, they get social medicine and a bunch of other programs. They are also taxed at about 50%. They also LIVE on credit. A car loan can run into 10 years as a norm. Otherwise, they couldn't afford the payments. Many Germans can't even own a home. Compared to America, it's a joke. A friends wife was pregnant while I was there and we went to the hospital. She couldn't have a private or even a semi private room. She was in a room with 6 other women, and the babies were still kept in a nursery down the hall. It was like 1935 America, with no say in what happened.

Every place on earth that has tried the Utopian experiment of any type of ism, save capatalism, has suffered catastophic results. Look at the USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, etc.

It isn't society's job to pay for and take care of everyone. Many people in this country aren't contributing members of society. Tough as that sounds, if it was the animal kindgdom, they would call that natural selection. If you aren't capable enough to get a job, get some training or education in a country with THESE advantages, then maybe nature is thinning out the herd a bit, eh?

I'll be convinced I need to pay for others healthcare when others decide my home, truck, boat, lifestyle, food choices and material goods aren't good enough for me and allow me to sit on my behind while they pay for something better. Lord, save us all from the social scientists.

Gabby you brought up some valid points.
But please do make this calculation.Calculate the amount of money you pay yearly for medical expenses,including insurance and add to that the cost of educating your kids,throw the yearly expenses you spend on tolls in for good measure.Now take all these expenses and add them to your yearly tax bill.How much more than 33% of your income will that be?

[colour=blue]Rolmops: If nanny government provides services ya have to pay, (taxes: Rolmops), for the inherant corruption n' incompatence of ALL GOVERNMENTS. Private companies actually pay taxes n' are far more efficient. No comparison (unless yer smokin' somethin' o' course). Novel corncept: provide essential services n' pay taxes to offer the services n' compete with other private efficent competitors ta keep prices low. Hmmmmmm maybe the corncept works (WHICH IT DOES; BTW). Pssssst: Don't tell the rest of yer Lib buds or they may think ya don't have the good smoke any more and accuse ya of bein' hatefull n' all!! [/colour]8)8)

As far as every place in the world that has suffered catastrophic results from Utopian experiments.Your examples are few and poor.The USSR tried and failed.Cuba tried and was strangled by Big Brother next door,North Korea is a feudal state where communism is used to starve and suppress so a very few can live like paranoid kings(no Utopian experiments there).

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmmm examples that it works eh Rolmops? Did ya hear that Communism has killed more people living as a percentage of the total population of the earth, (humans), then any thing else in HISTORY, even Religion? Let the smoke clear a li'l n' ponder that one my friend! [/colour]8)8)

Western Europe did not fare that bad, but does have some of the experiment mixed with a healthy dose of capitalism.

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmm, birth rate insufficient to sustain their Countrys, high unemployment, n' lots of cars burnin' n' cops under attack. Real healthy places ya sure yabetcha![/colour] 8)8)

The culture and religion that taught me the values which I adhere to,tries to raise humanity above the level of the animal kingdom.So does Christianity.I would not want the USA to fall back into that animal kingdom.

[colour=blue]Guess I don't know what yer talkin' 'bout here but I only have one brain cell, n' I'm not smokin' what you are. Where can I get some o' that stuff??[/colour] 8)8)8)8)

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

I lived in Germany for four years. Yep, they get social medicine and a bunch of other programs. They are also taxed at about 50%. They also LIVE on credit. A car loan can run into 10 years as a norm. Otherwise, they couldn't afford the payments. Many Germans can't even own a home. Compared to America, it's a joke. A friends wife was pregnant while I was there and we went to the hospital. She couldn't have a private or even a semi private room. She was in a room with 6 other women, and the babies were still kept in a nursery down the hall. It was like 1935 America, with no say in what happened.

Every place on earth that has tried the Utopian experiment of any type of ism, save capatalism, has suffered catastophic results. Look at the USSR, Cuba, N. Korea, etc.

It isn't society's job to pay for and take care of everyone. Many people in this country aren't contributing members of society. Tough as that sounds, if it was the animal kindgdom, they would call that natural selection. If you aren't capable enough to get a job, get some training or education in a country with THESE advantages, then maybe nature is thinning out the herd a bit, eh?

I'll be convinced I need to pay for others healthcare when others decide my home, truck, boat, lifestyle, food choices and material goods aren't good enough for me and allow me to sit on my behind while they pay for something better. Lord, save us all from the social scientists.

Gabby you brought up some valid points.
But please do make this calculation.Calculate the amount of money you pay yearly for medical expenses,including insurance and add to that the cost of educating your kids,throw the yearly expenses you spend on tolls in for good measure.Now take all these expenses and add them to your yearly tax bill.How much more than 33% of your income will that be?

[colour=blue]Rolmops: If nanny government provides services ya have to pay, (taxes: Rolmops), for the inherant corruption n' incompatence of ALL GOVERNMENTS. Private companies actually pay taxes n' are far more efficient. No comparison (unless yer smokin' somethin' o' course). Novel corncept: provide essential services n' pay taxes to offer the services n' compete with other private efficent competitors ta keep prices low. Hmmmmmm maybe the corncept works (WHICH IT DOES; BTW). Pssssst: Don't tell the rest of yer Lib buds or they may think ya don't have the good smoke any more and accuse ya of bein' hatefull n' all!! [/colour]8)8)

As far as every place in the world that has suffered catastrophic results from Utopian experiments.Your examples are few and poor.The USSR tried and failed.Cuba tried and was strangled by Big Brother next door,North Korea is a feudal state where communism is used to starve and suppress so a very few can live like paranoid kings(no Utopian experiments there).

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmmm examples that it works eh Rolmops? Did ya hear that Communism has killed more people living as a percentage of the total population of the earth, (humans), then any thing else in HISTORY, even Religion? Let the smoke clear a li'l n' ponder that one my friend! [/colour]8)8)

Western Europe did not fare that bad, but does have some of the experiment mixed with a healthy dose of capitalism.

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmm, birth rate insufficient to sustain their Countrys, high unemployment, n' lots of cars burnin' n' cops under attack. Real healthy places ya sure yabetcha![/colour] 8)8)

The culture and religion that taught me the values which I adhere to,tries to raise humanity above the level of the animal kingdom.So does Christianity.I would not want the USA to fall back into that animal kingdom.

[colour=blue]Guess I don't know what yer talkin' 'bout here but I only have one brain cell, n' I'm not smokin' what you are. Where can I get some o' that stuff??[/colour] 8)8)8)8)

I see that your cornservative lifestyle really creates a need for the good weed.You should travel to Canada and smoke the sweet weed after your hearts desire,It is almost legal there.
By the way,back in Utrecht, Holland where I studied for my masters in political science,the sweet weed was perfectly legal,without any government interference

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

You do have an impressive life n' resume Rolmops. I bet ol' Murky could learn a lot from you n' your experiences. Why have you traveled so much n' lived n' studied in sooooo many neat n' exotic places? If ya ever travel to God's Country, (that's Seattle Metro; Jesus or Allah: BTW), please let me know. I would luv ta buy ya a beer or two or more n' learn about yer very interesting life n' insights!! Wouldn't wana smoke anything as ol' Murky's brain cell luvs ta learn n' probably would get real sleepy with that strong smoke!! 8)8)

 

[solidwaste]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

We already have free health care. Just go to a comunity hospital. They have to give you care. That way you can be a drain on all of us who actualy pay for it. What now you want goverment health care is that so you dont feel so bad? Why is it that I we have to take care of everyone else. I for one say to H@ll with that. I take care of myself and my family you man up and take care of youre own. If you cant deal with that than too bad.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

No offense solidwaste, but the name makes me think of hillary's health care 8)

 

[Kalifornyakid]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

"KK, living a Christian life means taking care of people, I agree. And helping them. I agree. But when the government mandates it, and takes it from us, and we have no say, that isn't the same thing."

You're absolutely right Gabby, I agree. Mandated charity is not the way to help people. I'm a man of few words, I hate typing long posts. I was iritated by Rolmops dig on Christians, but didn't want to type up a thesis!

 

[rolmops]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

"KK, living a Christian life means taking care of people, I agree. And helping them. I agree. But when the government mandates it, and takes it from us, and we have no say, that isn't the same thing."

You're absolutely right Gabby, I agree. Mandated charity is not the way to help people. I'm a man of few words, I hate typing long posts. I was iritated by Rolmops dig on Christians, but didn't want to type up a thesis!

Good morning Kaliforniakid.
If I affronted you,I do apologize.However my dig was not against Christians,it was against those who claim to be Christians while they do not live according to the Gospels.

 

[Kalifornyakid]

Re: Hillary's Health Care Plan

It's all good Rolmops.