Household Electrical Wiring Question . . .

[NewfieDan]

Don't lump all of us professionals together. There are still some of us who take pride in their work.

 

[gm280]

OMG what crap is that! I honestly don't understand why some folks short cut things instead of doing the job correctly. I can't stand crappy work... I do all my own electrical wiring. I know the code! When I built my shop I had a 200 amp service run from the street to the shop. I wired everything and balanced all the individual circuits and even 220 volt receptacles. The county inspector told me that after seeing my preliminary (rough wiring inspection) that I knew more about electrical wiring then he did... He honestly said that! And the county electric power guy that had to installed the power meter to apply power back on, walked all the way down to his truck and stopped. I was watching him and he turned and came all the way back to me and said, he had been working for the power company for many many years and my wiring was the best he has ever seen in all those years. If that doesn't make you proud, nothing will... I try to do my work better then anybody would ever expect! But always always to the proper code as well... People's life actually depend on it!

 

[alldodge]

My Dad was a union electrician and I use to help him out when I could. To go back to the first post, I see nothing wrong other then the white HOT wire coming back to the switch (switch leg) should be about 3 times as long as the others. The longer white wire in a box is the tell, tell sign as a switch leg. As previously mentioned, tape is not allowed.

 

[bigdee]

My Dad was a union electrician and I use to help him out when I could. To go back to the first post, I see nothing wrong other then the white HOT wire coming back to the switch (switch leg) should be about 3 times as long as the others. The longer white wire in a box is the tell, tell sign as a switch leg. As previously mentioned, tape is not allowed.

I do not see anything in that photo that indicates a switch leg. I see what appears to be a "feed through" switch...in which case both wires should be black and switching on the "hot" side. This looks like black and white are reversed.

 

[alldodge]

Here is the way I take it and a change is needed on the second pic





If I see one 2 pairs of wires, and none are longer then the other this would tell me one is hot and the other is daisy chained to the next receptacle or such. If I see 2 pairs of wires and one has a long white, this is a switch leg

 

[alldodge]

BELAY THAT, it might not be wrong. The two blacks could be the daisy chained hot's and the white is the switch leg to the lights. If this is the case it is wired correctly, just need the tail, tail sign of the log white for the leg. It would also be better if they used wire nuts to chain them together instead of using the switch. They probably didn't because the box is small

 

[Grandad]

I see what appears to be a "feed through" switch...in which case both wires should be black and switching on the "hot" side. This looks like black and white are reversed.

Yup. If only the switch end is reversed, it's dangerous now at the light end. If both ends are reversed, it's safe right now, but a danger at the light for someone in the future after they unwittingly rewire the light fixture to code standard. When I started work as an inspector, we played wack-a-mole with these fly-by-night supposed electricians. When I retired, 25 years later, we were still playing wack-a-mole, only with a bigger stick. But as long as there's criminals, there will certainly still be unscrupulous contractors with no conscience for the next guy or the family that dies because of their work habits. - Grandad

 

[MTboatguy]

I would say, you would need to look at it from the code that was in effect in that state and county in 1992 when the house was built. Things do change over the years, but you are talking about code that is 23 years ago.

 

[gm280]

I would say, you would need to look at it from the code that was in effect in that state and county in 1992 when the house was built. Things do change over the years, but you are talking about code that is 23 years ago.

Yes you are correct. But I never heard of anybody switching a neutral or even a ground with a switch. That is pure crazy and deadly as well...

 

[MTboatguy]

Yes you are correct. But I never heard of anybody switching a neutral or even a ground with a switch. That is pure crazy and deadly as well...

See, I have, there are variations on wiring all over the place

The diagram at this link, shows a variation:

http://www.electrical-online.com/wiring-a-basic-light-switch-variation-1/

My master bath has some of the blk/white combos and they were done by a master electrician, last summer and passed inspection.

 

[alldodge]

Your not actually switching the neutral, your just using the neutral as something which can be easily seen as this is different. A 120VAC light bulb does not care which is hot and which is neutral. If all the person looking at the wiring is what is in the box where the switch is this is a way to tell them something is different. If they all used the black as a switch leg you could not tell which one by looking. The ground is not switched, maybe this pic might help

 

[alldodge]

MT link shows the following pic


This has power going to the light before going to the switch. The code is changing to this method. The plus side is there is no longer a switch leg need to be seen. The negative is breaker needs to be turn off (not just the switch) to do work. The box containing the switch can not feed another circuit. If you want to feed something else you need another wire run. more junction boxes

 

[tpenfield]

You guys are making my head hurt . . .

As I see it, based on the comments, the feed to the light just has the colors reversed.

 

[bigdee]

You guys are making my head hurt . . .

As I see it, based on the comments, the feed to the light just has the colors reversed.

YES you are right. This is not a switch leg. This is a feed through. A switch leg does not originate from the same box that the switch is in. Unless there are two lights being controlled from this switch I don't see it being a switch leg. BTW I am a licensed electrician.

 

[Grandad]

You guys are making my head hurt . . .

As I see it, based on the comments, the feed to the light just has the colors reversed.

Right on. I'd check both ends of that cable to ensure the correct polarity at the light socket. - Grandad

 

[tpenfield]

Just to clear up any confusion about the circuit, this is the best that I can figure out, based on the wiring that I saw and tested.

Circuit as observed . . . (white is pictured as gray for appearance)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





What it should be, based on my thoughts and the comments from 'the group' . . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would provide uniformity at the light fixture of the black being the hot and the white being the neutral.

 

[alldodge]

Just to clear up any confusion about the circuit, this is the best that I can figure out, based on the wiring that I saw and tested.


What it should be, based on my thoughts and the comments from 'the group' . . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would provide uniformity at the light fixture of the black being the hot and the white being the neutral.

As a non-electrician I will say no, but to clarify take your picture down to the local inspection/permit office an ask them. It would be interesting to here what they have to say

 

[bigdee]

Just to clear up any confusion about the circuit, this is the best that I can figure out, based on the wiring that I saw and tested.

Circuit as observed . . . (white is pictured as gray for appearance)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





What it should be, based on my thoughts and the comments from 'the group' . . .
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would provide uniformity at the light fixture of the black being the hot and the white being the neutral.

You are exactly right! Kudos for an excellent illustration.

 

[Grandad]

You are exactly right! Kudos for an excellent illustration.

Yes, good illustration, but I would add that the black wire at the light must go to the center point of the bulb, not to the shell to ensure safety from accidental contact with live parts when changing. This polarity issue is often overlooked by those that use the criteria that if the light works, they done it right. By the way, the "neutral" on a light fixture is technically called the "identified" conductor. If you look at any modern table lamp, the cord has one conductor with a ridge along it or it will have the manufacturer's name or cord type continuously identifying the identified conductor that's intended to connect to the outer shell of the lamp socket at one end and the wide blade of the plug at the other end. - Grandad

 

[bigdee]

Yes, good illustration, but I would add that the black wire at the light must go to the center point of the bulb, not to the shell to ensure safety from accidental contact with live parts when changing.

Correct. Illustration is for wiring error at switch and does not identify center of socket. That is determined when light fixture is installed by connecting color to color which would be correct for 2nd illustration.