How about two antennas on board?

[JMRuth72]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Expidia,

I am not at all familiar with this item. I have used a special converter to let me use the AM/FM antenna on my car as a CB antenna, but it is not efficeint. This is a different scenario, you are using the VHF antenna to receive AM/FM and just tapping off of that signal. I am not sure how this would work. I don't see why it shouldn't work pretty well. Even if it does reduce the capability of the new antenna it should not be much and it will be a massive improvement over what you have got and you will be able to use one less antenna on deck. From what I read Shakespeare says that it will not interfere with the VHF capability at all. I would think that they would have a vested interest in not steering people wrong. I have never heard anything bad about them. Those are the goods and bads as I see them. Sorry that I can not help more directly with this one.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Thx JM . . . I did see another poster say in another forum that you would drop a DB because of the splitter connection when I was Googling around . . .

thehulltruth.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=164048&posts=4

This poster did not like the use of a splitter at all . . . but he could be commenting and may not have ever tried one out too! An SWR meter would tell me the drop off!

I suppose in an emergency where I might need all the coverage I could muster up, it would be simple enough to just unscrew the connectors and go directly into the VHF radio. I agree with you that if Shakespeare is selling them under their name for use whith their antennas, this device just might work as advertised. Maybe they have a disclaimer in their installation instructions?

I'll shoot off an email to their customer service and ask if there is a noticeable drop.

In any case, the going rate from West or online that I've found so far is around $50. Come April after I get everything installed I'll pick one up at West and if see a drop in performance, I can always return it back to West.

It might be like the poster said though . . . "Why buy an expensive radio and an expensive antenna only to add a splitter and cause a power drop"? He suggested to buy a separate AM/FM antenna. I already have an antenna for the GPS, now I'll have the 8 footer and if I had to add another AM/FM antenna or maybe a Sirius at some future date or combo Sirius AM/FM antenna . . . I don't want my rig looking like a Fire or Police boat .

I also came across on the web the Shakespeare 4187 stainless steel ratchet mount for about $24 including shipping. I picked that up as I thought that was a good price from what I've seen in some stores.

Another reason I don't like the 12v powered AM/FM antenna I have now is that if I forget to turn off the Perco switch before trailering or storing in my backyard after a trip, there is constant power drain to the battery. It should have had an auto off feature, once the stereo is turned off.

I'd give up a Db for the security of knowing everything is now off!

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Let me know what you find out from Shakespeare about the performance of the splitter. I was just walking our dog and thinking about the splitters that I have had experience with and I think that what they probably did was a straight through for the VHF part and a tap with a circuit to impedance match the antenna to AM/FM for the other circuit. I would think that they would also have put something in that secondary circuit to protect the Stereo from the transmitted power of the transceiver. If that is the case then I see no reason why it should not only work, but work very well. I think that to keep the total cable length as close to factory length as possible I would cut the antenna line shorter by the same amount that the splitter will add (IE if it has a 3' pigtail and the box is 3" from one end of a connector to the other side of the box then I would cut 3'3" off of the antenna line.). You will not likely get an exact measurement and I would highly encourage the use of a SWR meter for calibration, but it should keep you close enough to not through off the functional characteristics of the antenna.
As for your current powered AM/FM antenna. If you are worried about accidently leaving the power on then install a master power switch on your console. It is simple and relatively cheap to install and is a readily visual way to make sure that ALL power is off. If the switch is down, no power. It is used by lots of people to cut all power to the distribution panel that everything is routed through. Just make sure that you get one rated for enough amps to carry the current of ALL of the equipment you run on your boat at one time with a healthy reserve in case you add more later. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Just found the Shakespeare splitter it for $40.99 plus $6 shipping.

Says it does not interfere with VHF! I picked it up.

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Expidia,

Sounds good and it is a very simple install. Just make sure that all connections are tight and sealed with dieelectric grease and you shouldn't have any problems. Take care and good luck.

JM

 

[Boatist]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

I think you will be happy with your new antenna. First your choice is a quality top of the line antenna and mounted 2 feet above the water the line of site range is 4.49 Miles. Then you add the range of the other station to that number. So another boat exactly like yours will have a range 8.98 miles between boats.
If your talking to a boat with a higher mounted antenna the range will be greater. Talking to a station like the Coast Guard with a high mounted antenna range can be over 80 miles. My antenna is a 8 foot 5225 Galaxy mounted about 4 feet off the water and my common range is about 10 miles for boat to boat but have talk to the Coast Guard over 80 miles away. That is because out here the Coast Guard's antenna is mounted on a mountain about 2500 feet high.

With the 6 DB gain antenna and a 25 watt radio your effective power is 100 watts. Your hand held probably had a power of 5 watts and an antenna of about -3 DB for an effective power of 2.5 watts. Also the antenna was not near the height of your new antenna.

When you mount your new antenna if possible put a solid backing plate under the deck for your mount. I use a aluminum plate at least 1/8 inch thick and twice the size of the mounting holes. So if your mounting holes are 2 inches apart one way and 4 inches apart the other way I would try to use a plate 4 inches by 6 inches at least to give the deck some support.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Thx Boatist, ya I thought of the plate. I'm planning so far to mount the antenna on the aft Port side in the corner. I have a downrigger on the opposite corner which I mounted by the same method. I doubt if I'll ever add another downrigger on the Port side anyway cause I run several lines off the single one I have now. I used a Cannon OEM aluminum deck plate for that downrigger and bought a second one to mount under the deck for added strength. It was about $35, but it made for a real easy install cause all the holes lined up exactly with no extra plate drilling.

I mostly try and dock on the Starboard side and keep my fenders attached to the same side to flip out just before docking. Sometimes depending on the wind I come in Port to dock, but just swing the boat around after. My Lund has this $100-150 OEM stick on decal along the side. It already has a few light scratches, so I figure it'll be cheaper to replace only one side at some point

Since I try to mostly board on the Starboard side, the antenna, when it's down won't get stepped on if I mount it in that aft corner. It can be ratcheted down when fishing off the back too to keep it out of the way.

I don't see any other position for it, because the enclosure clips over the gunnel's. I would have liked it just to the right of the steering wheel attached to the right side of the console, but that won't work with enclosure up.

If I go just ahead of the console, then it's in my line of sight all the time!

I'll definitely use another below deck backing plate though for the ratchet mount. I'll move the antenna around and test a few positions, before I pull out the drill

Rachet mount arrived today . . . I ordered the standard 4187 model (stainless steel) by Shakespeare from an online vendor, but they shipped the 4187HD (heavy duty) model. Price was $19.99 but Shakespeare's site lists a retail price of $73. Think there is much of a markup on boat parts . . . pays to shop around.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Galaxy 5226 came today . . . Amazing how fast we get stuff when ordered off the net. Only ordered it a few days ago and it was on my porch at 8:30 this AM. Not bad a few days before Xmas. Kudo's to Fedex, they really blow slow UPS away (they should rename the company "SLOWPS") IMO.

It looks real sweet. Black glossy finish and best of all it does not have that 1 foot red splashed on logo in the center of the antenna, which I expected to see from some pics and was not really crazy about boating around with an ugly red logo in the middle of the antenna. I was going to magic marker it anyway to tone it down, but it's not on this one. Maybe it's from older stock and the 2008 model has that logo now. It's the same model # 5226XT, so I'm happy.

So now I have all the parts and I'm all dressed up and got no where to go . . . cause I can't locate the black PS 2000 radio with a black mike.

I posted a request in another thread to give me a shout if anyone sees one for sale in a store or on the web for around $169 with the black mike.

Thx

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Since my antenna came with the connector separate I found this link on how to solder PL-279 connector the correct way. I thought it would be of interest to others.

I too won't use a soldering iron anymore as the article states. I can't stand waiting for them to heat up and they never get hot enough anyway. I've always hated them and now use a mini butane torch.

Great article: http://www.dxzone.com/cgi-bin/dir/jump2.cgi?ID=14424

Click on the big blue wording: Soldering PL-259 Coax Plugs

 

[JMRuth72]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Hey Boatist,

I stand corrected on what you were saying. I think that I figured out what you meant. If boat A has a line of sight of 4 miles and boat B has a line of sight of 4 miles then the antenna's will "see" each other at 8 miles. That is because the horizon is not blocking them straight line until beyond 8 miles and they will therefore talk at that range. I was missreading what you were saying. I was thinking that you were saying the radio would carry the message back on its own carrier wave. Don't ask me why I thought that, but I have known people that thought that was how it worked. However I am a little fuzzy on how you figured the range. I looked it up on wikipedia and it said the calculation for line of sight is the (square root of 1.5 times the antenna height). I therefore calculated square root of 1.5 x 10 = square root of 15 = roughly 3.874. Am I right if so how did you get 4.49. Am I using the right formula? Is there an additional part of the formula that includes gain and power? I am weak on math and I don't have a good calculator at the moment. I am not sure that my calculations are right. Please let me know if I am wrong. As always I do know that there are other factors that mess with radio transmission, sometimes for the positive. When I was a radar tech we occasionally tracked things a good distance further than we were supposed to be able to and we always tracked to mininum. Of course if an enemy had gotten something that close there wasn't much we could do except hold on to something and kiss our a## goodbye.

Expidia,

Sounds like you are just about ready to get all setup and talking. Let us know how it works.

Both of Y'all have a good night and I hope to hear from y'all again.

JM

 

[Boatist]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Your on the right track. The Formula from several web sites including Shakespeare's is the square root of the antenna height in feet times 1.42 equal's the line of site range in miles. also to remenber to calculation for both boats and add together.

So his antenna height above the water is 10 feet and the square root is 3.16227768 times 1.42 equals 4.490434277 Miles.

Maybe to understand the concept draw 4 or 5 inch circle on a piece of paper.

Now at the top of the circle use a ruler and draw a line from side to side that just touches the circle at the top. Call this the line of site.

Now with a ruler draw a 1 inch line at a 90 degree angle to the circle on the left side. Position the line where 1 inch line will just touch the circle and the line of site line. This will be vessel one antenna.

"http://shakespeare-marine.com/faq.asp"

On the right side of the circle do the same thing. This is vessel TWO antenna. Move either vessel farther away and the water or earth blocks the line of site. Move either closer and will see they will see each other. Just for fun do the same on either side with a 2 inch line and you will see the range between vessels increases.

This is in no way in porportion to the earth and vessels but should make it easy to understand the line of site concept. Line of site is for VHF and UHF radios. These frequencies will not bend and will also not refelect or skip off the ionosphere. HF and Low frequencies will bend and also skip making it possible to talk over the horzion or around the world. HF radios require a licence. This is knida of Ham Radio 101.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Went over to that link you posted Boatist . . . if it were not for my enclosure I would have mounted my antenna on the right side of the console right next to the radio!

Frequently Asked Questions about Shakespeare Marine Antenna Products
Q: Can I mount the antenna beside the radio?
A: No, it must be at least three feet away from the radio, so transmission will not interfere with the radios reception (usually resulting in a squeal in the speaker).

 

[Boatist]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

It a good link so I typed it in. I do not see them as a competetor of Iboats but they do not want your to post direct links.

One thing that I might suggest is to use a gold plated PL259. For fresh water areas the one supplied is good. Also I would not cut the Lead wire shorter than 6 feet. It is a low loss cable and you never know when you might move the radio or antenna to another location or even to a different boat.

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Thx . . . freshwater use only. If I mount it aft I'll use all of the 20 feet as I snake it around to the console.

I always try to buy higher end stuff knowing someday it will all go to the next boat. I miss a cuddy and a built in gas tank but the car I tow it with now can only tow 1000 lbs so this rig works out perfect for me because we love to trailer around to different lakes each weekend.

I'd love to move up to an 18-20 foot boat. So when my car dies at some point I still don't want to have to buy an SUV but I'll ponder it . . . and I don't want to be trapped on the same lake at a marina even though I'd be on a bigger boat.

Since I rent, even if I bought a third tow vehicle and if I got a bigger boat I'd also have to pay for a garage some where too for storage of the boat.

So many trade offs if I move up in size but I really enjoyed this rig over last season and it only cost me about $20 a day in fuel and I can top out a 35mph with the 40 hp if we need to get somewhere faster. We clocked over 100 hours of weekend use last season.

My good news is that as I posted in another thread about asking for others to let me know if they find the elusive Standard Horizon PS 2000 anywhere to alert me.

I found one myself after 3 weeks of searching . . . brand new for $185 including shipping (with the black mike I was looking for to match my boat) . . .

 

[Expidia]

Re: How about two antennas on board?

Review of the PS 2000 which came in a few days. Can't do the install until Spring, but in taking the various parts out of the two boxes for inspection, this Standard Horizon unit and the mike is a lot beefier and of a better build quality than I expected for $185.

The mike which controls all the features of the radio (the actual box is hidden under the dash or in a locker, battery compartment etc.) has a built in speaker and is very well made.
Unit allows for an optional speaker too and a hailer horn since it has a fog signal alert feature built in.

Also allows for a 2nd mike to control radio from down below or on the bridge on bigger boats.

If I can catch a day of Indian Summer over the Winter, I might get a chance be able to uncover the boat and install it along with the new Galaxy antenna, since I store the boat in my backyard.

From reviews I've read they say the mike speaker comes in loud and clear. If not I'll add an a small ext speaker.

I wonder if I can just tap into one of my Stereo speakers but my guess is even if that would work they are still down near the deck and I'd be better off with a small ext near ear level to be better heard over the outboard while underway.

What sold me on this particular unit was the console space saving ability in my open boat to only have the mike (which is actually the radio) hanging on the included mike hook. And since I remove my electronics when I'm not with the boat all I need do is unplug the mike and toss it in a locker or at the end of the day I keep the electronics and etc. in my car's trunk.

Now that I've received my unit, I'll give out his contact info. I think he has two new units left.

PM me if anyone is interested!