How bad is it DOC?? PIC

[BugEyes]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

http://rickracers.com is a place I found with decent prices at least for my motor.<br />If you don't do it right there is a big risk that you just waste the money you put into it.<br />If you do the full rebuild you will have an engine as good as new for a fraction of the price of a new one.<br />I'm rebuilding an engine for the first time, an old 25 hp Evinrude. I might put up to $500 on it but then again a new one would cost me over $3000. You need to measure the bores to detect if the cyls need to be rebored for oversize pistons. Mine didn't look like they did, but upon closer inpection they did.<br /><br /> HERE is my tread about my project, damage similar to yours.

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Hi Pikefisher,<br /><br />at this point I need to get the pistons and crankshaft out for a look and assesment. If the crank is bad the motor will be parted out. I'm hoping that won't be the case. I need to get a puller for the flywheel before I can really get in there. Like you said, I'm either going all the way or not at all. Currently the powerhead is on the ground out of the motor.

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Ok I tore it down tonight. Here are some pics. It looks like the motor had some water leaking from the previous owner or something:<br /><br /> http://www.porfor.com/pistons_crank.jpg <br /><br /> http://www.porfor.com/bare_block.jpg <br /><br />Sorry for asking 1 million question Rodbolt. Of course you were right. Looking at these things I can't believe I doubted your analysis. The top and bottom bearings on the crank definitely need to be replaced. They sound like roller skate bearings. The middle two however are smooth and silent. As far as the rod bearings they seem fine from what I can tell. There isn't any play or looseness I can tell offhand. What should I be looking for to determine if the crank needs to be replaced? What is the correct process to get this rebuilt? Take to machine shop have them measure tolerances and determine if I can get away with .25 OS or just jump straight to .50 OS?<br /> Thanks.<br /><br />FYI before I took the two halves of the block apart I tried to see how loose the crank was in the block and I could not get it to wiggle at all. Would the help in determining if the crank is ok? I also looked at the little holes of the rod at the bearings and I didn't see any pits or scores.

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Ok did some more hunting around for the rebuild. So far its going to cost around $400, just under $300 for the parts and $130 for boring and honing the three cylinders. Not too bad, considering I was the one who screwed this motor up to begin with. Does $130 sound too much for getting the block bored and honed? I'm just about ready to dive into this one. Thanks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

hello<br /> on this coast 130 for 3 holes is slightly high but not bad. remove the pistons from the rods. on this coast I use Ackermann marine in wilmington NC I think on your coast OCC. first thing is to send that crank off for inspection. my 65 hp suzy crank set me back about 450. that was all new rod and main bearings and 1 new rod. then let the machine shop determine bore size. they dont need the piston to bore it.<br /> so ya might have to write santa a letter <br /> but if you put it back in service with new pistons and a messed up crank it will fail soon. you may want to call someplace like fridays marine in saluda and see about sending your block assy with head to them for a reman.<br /> but either way do it all and do it right and you will have a nice machine, do half and you will hate it.

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Hi Rodbolt,<br /><br />What does OCC stand for? I was thinking $130 was a bit high also. Just wanna look around a little. Also I'll take the crank to a shop to have it looked at. Just so I know, what am I looking for? The manual says to look for out of round from one end of the shaft to the other. I guess also the bearing surfaces. This motor though old when I got it had very little use from what the owner told me. He gave it to me because he couldn't get the driveshaft off. I took care of that.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

hello<br /> OCC is outboard crankshaft company.<br /> there are several checks to make on the main and rod bearings. best to let someone with experience do that inspection

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Hi Rodbolt,<br /><br />I took the motor to a Suzuki dealer today. The mechanic took a look at the crank and pistons and the block. He said the pistons need to be replaced but the block only needs to be rehoned. I asked about the condition of the crank and bearings and he spun them, checked the piston arm play and said everything looked fine. He's gonna rehone the block and had me order new standard pistons, rings and piston bearings, clips, and pins. The rest he said seemed fine. This gentleman has been very helpful and appeared very knowledgeable. I'm hoping he made a correct assesment. I will be putting this back together myself. Is there anything you can suggest with regards to reassembly? Thanks a bunch.

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Bump ^

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

boatster. aint no way. but its your money. if and when it pops again dont blame suzuki. blame a to loose piston fit. I can tell by the pics that the scars in the walls are at least oo5. the max is about .oo3.<br /> but its your money<br /> spend it how you please.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Sorry for asking 1 million question Rodbolt. Of course you were right. Looking at these things I can't believe I doubted your analysis.

Rodbolt has already offered the best advise possible and you complimented him on his analysis without him ever seeing your motor. <br /><br />Honing the block and putting it back together gives you a worn out motor with unscored pistons. <br /><br />Your buying pistons either way (boring or honing only) so youre not saving anything on parts $$. The $$ saved is the difference between a bore and hone ($130.00 per your post) and a hone only. Whats a hone only cost? $20.00 a hole? Even if its $10.00 a hole you saved $100.00. And ended up with a motor thats at or past the wear tolerances. IE - little or no life left in it. <br /><br />Like he said, its your motor and your money. But just so you know -- see that light at the end of the tunnel?<br /><br /><br />Its a train..........

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Rodbolt,<br />I hear your argument. My manual says that the wear on the cylinder bore should be no more than 0.10 mm (0.004 in). When I look at my feeler gauge I don't think the cylinder walls were worn down below .10 mm at the heaviest scored locations to be honest. I was also somewhat surprised how little scoring had occurred in the bores of each hole in the block when I had the bare block. I must admit he said what I was all too happy to hear though. <br />I'm going to call on Monday to stop the job & parts if I can.

 

[mat191]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Hello <br /><br />What size is this suk ? If it's a 85 HP i have 3 new 0.25 oversize pistons that iam not going to be needing<br /><br />Let me know<br />thanks

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Thanks Mat,<br /><br />no its a 30 hp.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

hello<br /> if you can feel them with a fingernail it needs boring. .003 is the thickness of the average human hair.

 

[bigbrownbuku]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

boatster the key word here is "score" unless your bore is a smooth surface around the complete circumference you will have problems.<br />this begs the question, do you have oars?

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Ben,<br /><br />I do have oars. But I think I'm gonna invest in a pair of turbo oars with NOx for just in case. <br />I'm gonna put a stop to this on Monday, see if I can get oversized pistons instead.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

hgahahahqa<br /> I love it<br /> turbo oars with NOX<br />hahahaah<br /> been there done that<br /> oh wait<br /> that was turbo oars with <br />budweiser> still got home <br />but have the tech attept to hone the block smooth and round. after he is done have an independant machine shop verify the size and taper and roundness of the bores. remember if you can feel the scar with your fingernail hot combustion gas will blast right past it causing damage to the new stuff as well as contaminating(leaning out) the next fuel charge. turns into a vicious cycle that ends in death <br /> of just the motor we hope

 

[boatster]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Hey guys,<br /><br />I was too late in stopping the honing and parts. I talked to the mechanic and he took measurements. In short the bores were still way within tolerance and he honed all the scores away.<br />Hey explained to me why my motor didn't need to be rebored and showed me a block that did. Well I didn't want to argue with him and I put the motor back together. We took her out this weekend and did half the breakin procedure. Tonight I took out the leakdown tester and all pistons are 100% in accordance with each other and there is virtually no leak on each cylinder throughout the whole compression stroke. The motor runs cooler, smoother, and idles all the way down to 300 rpms. Thanks for everyone who has thrown in a thought or two. Special thanks goes out to Rodbolt who has stayed so patient with me regardless of my noobile pestering. I've learned so much from this forum and this motor. I still have to test the oil flow warning switch and the carburators. Thanks everyone.<br /><br />Boatster

 

[BugEyes]

Re: How bad is it DOC?? PIC

Great news <br />Been following this tread and I like the happy ending.