How Bad

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: How Bad

you are quite correct on that. I have no plans to use any type of large credit and My Lady and I sit down once a week and go over all our upcoming bills and plan of attack for the next few months. I think more people need to be and should have been doing this.

That is whats going on, nobody is spending except to pay off their debt. With people paying their debt, seems that the financial institutions would be happy with people striving to pay their debt off. My wife and I have been doing it for almost 4 years now. During this period, we have not needed any credit what so ever. I find it odd that if I can do it now, why didn't I just buy before with cash instead of a card. People don't want to carry cash, but hey, they can only take the cash you have with you,,,,,,,,,with a card, they can get lots more from you,,,,like your identity which is far worse. Its odd that when credit cards first came out, they were to suppose be for eliminating the fear of being robbed and carrying lots of cash. So much for that anymore.........SS

 

[gonfishn]

Re: How Bad

I have always said one must find your niche. Such as new ideas,something that is new and different in your field. I have expanded that. I am working with the Southern Ohio Chiropractor Association. They are going to come in and build a line of mattresses that they feel will be good for their patients. In return they will send their patients to my factory to buy. Their association in return will get a commission for the endorsement.

Also being a factory i can do comfort changes since i am the factory. You buy a mattress from a store and its yours unless there is a warranty problem. I also do house calls for those older folks who can't get out. Its going to be a rough time no matter who is running the Gov. This mess started years ago and we must share the burden for those crooks we let get away with it. Only reason the investment bust is happening now is because with the economy went bad folks started pulling there money out only to find out and guess what billions were found not to be there. Life savings gone. Wall street giving billions of dollars in Commissions out even when they are looking for a bailout.

 

[Shizzy]

Re: How Bad

A lot of people are going to be reevaluating their priorities. this in the end will be a good thing. Too many people with a "I deserve this" additide. I kind of relate it to being an alcoholic or a drug addict. You need to hit bottom and really see what a mess you have made of things. Then its up to you to change your ways and make the needed inprovments. I dont really thingk sales of anything is "down" I think its an adjustment to where it should have been in the first place.

 

[jinx]

Re: How Bad

Business is down about 50% since Sept. Last October I went through the drill of identifying every penny spent the year before. Now on a tighter leash, got kid's involved in planning for leaner Christmas. Varmints take things pretty well when they understand.

I had a heart to heart with oldest son about graduating next year in a terrible job environment. I told him the rules changed last fall. I don't think he gets it yet though.

I do hope that leadership in this country starts to emphasize that we have been in worst crises before and that as a people we can handle this. A continuing mantra of doom and gloom does no one any favors.

That being said, I remain a pessimist for the future, less about the economy than other situations our country faces.

Jinx

 

[eaglejim]

Re: How Bad

Well I sold another small job yesterday.It used to be we had a three month backup now we are lucky to have a week backup but at least we are not closing our doors like some of the competitors have already called it a day.I have seen it bad like this but not in awhile.Remember this is the time we FISH (new customers) FARM (keep old customers very happy) so later we can HARVEST (rewards for the hard times we are having) so good luck everyone

 

[Docknocker]

Re: How Bad

There is a way to solve the economic crisis - TOTALLY IGNORE THE MEDIA
The media discovered LONG ago bad news generates traffic, and thus ad $$'s.
Good news doesn't sell anything. Therefor, they will spin things to the negative for their own gain. Example: It has been widely reported over the last few days that Caterpillar is laying off +/- 7,200 employees - very bad, right?
What they neglect to report, however is 1) That is worldwide, and 2) In 2007 due to rapid expansion, Cat created appx. 11,000 new jobs worldwide. In other words, Cat has actually created 3,800 new jobs over the past year.
But that's not the impression you got from all those "lay-off" articles you read, is it.
Shut off the TV, ignore the "bad news" links on your IP homepage, go to work, keep plugging, buy the new mattress (from gonfishn), buy a flat of plants (from kiwiphil) - just keep positive, keep moving, & screw the media - they're idiots!

 

[HVSTRINE]

Re: How Bad

It took us to the middle of the month to pay rent on the business property. First time late in 5 years. Sales down ~30% last quarter. No more Sat. off for me. Can't afford the help. Cost of nat gas for heating up 30% coupled with the coldest winter in years.

On the bright side,
Feb. is looking better because of tax refunds coming in. We have resisted all of the offers of credit cards and have only a low house pmt and not so low truck pmt. The lord will provide!

We know first hand the dire straights of our local economy. However, I totally agree with the previous post about negative press. I know for a fact that when you read about lay-offs at Intel Corp. that much of the headcount reduction is done by attrition and when a fab is shut down, most of the employees are offered positions elsewhere in the company. I'm sure other companies headlines are sensationalized by the press to sell papers. Kinda like when you read about the experts predicting a huge increase in fuel costs. I believe the consumers are being primed by the oil companies so when it happens we'll all just sigh and say, "well we knew this was coming". And then they post record profits. Sorry about the rant.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: How Bad

Yesterday, Wallymarts parking lot was dang near full, store was crowded, and people buying. Just shameful that the majority of their products are import. When we hear that Wallymart is laying off and McDonalds is closing, then is when we know things are really bad.

This country needs manufacturing jobs. Construction jobs are okay, but there is only so much of that can be done before its over. Sorta like a janitor being hired to clean a room. Once the room is clean, he is out of work. I feel that way with some agencies like the EPA. The air was dirty, now its clean, so now they keep going to the extreme to keep their jobs thinking of new restrictions. To me this is one of the main blisters that prevents new manufacturing growth.

 

[captmello]

Re: How Bad

I think we're in for a general change in the country and the opportunities it offers. I don't blame the media, however they do factor in without a doubt. I blame the greedy bast**ds in the financial world for most of the problems. Two of the wealthiest people in my state, once looked apon as great financial minds and pillars of society, are now on the ropes. One is going down criminally for ripping off investors, the other is a auto dealer owner who couldn't help his greed and bought up too many dealerships when times were better.

This goes back to the Enron scandle. The bubble was going to burst. But make sure the pockets of the executives get lined first right? Companys were buying up there own stocks to prop up the markets artificially.

All came down to greed. Homeowners convinced by greedy mortgage companies that the value of their homes would always go up, "take that ARM loan for two years, then come back and refi again". I spent some time in that industry a few years back. Bunch of greedy selfish liars.

I've got three teens coming into this market 16,18,19. I'm afraid for them.

Personally I will boycott bailed out companies if I can. Capitolism can't work that way. Print a bunch of money and give it to the greedy folks who put us where we are today. Great Idea.

I will survive however, as will my kids.

 

[Docknocker]

Re: How Bad

Amen Captmello, amen brother.
1,000% agree the entire mess has been caused by Wall St greed.
As Gordon Gecko said in the movie "Wall Street", "greed is good...". well, yea, but only up to a certain point. Beyond that point, greed is counter-productive.
This whole financial mess was orchestrated exclusively by the alleged brilliant minds (and I use that term sarcastically) on Wall St. From Enron, to the mortgage shell game, to the run up of crude oil pricing by futures speculators - all thanks to Wall St morons. They fully trash the economy, run away with the millions they stole, and leave all of us standing here, wondering if we'll be working next month.
My first post was alittle vague. In addition to ignoring the media, we also need to:
A) Hunt down all the Wall St trash at their 2.5 million dollar winter homes, seize ALL their assets, and attach seized assets to the bail-out package
B) Force all captured Wall St trash to work at Burger King for the next 10 years - AND LIVE ENTIRLY OFF THAT INCOME, and
C) Ignore the media
BTW, I highly recommend renting the movie "Wall Street". IMHO, it shows EXACTLY how Wall St. REALLY works
Nuf said

 

[DJ]

Re: How Bad

The media also has the entire American public believing the Big 3 domestic automakers asked for a bank style bailout. NOT TRUE.

A bailout is a GIFT. The automakers asked for gov't backed LOANS. And, one domestic has declined any assistance.

I understand the difference between a loan and a gift.

I get Christmas GIFTS. My mortgage is a LOAN.

 

[cdnfthree2]

Re: How Bad

I have made every effort to minimize the effects of the slowdown on me and my family. I've expanded both my services and my target customer. Loyalty to long time suppliers has disapeared. I.E. I now fax my materials list to several supppliers instead of one, Hammer them each for line item discounts, and then modify my order and only order the cheaper parts from each. Some I pick up elswhere. I now have just about as much work as I did before all this happened I just work harder to get it. If it gets any worse, not quite sure what I'll do.

 

[v1_0]

Re: How Bad

i'm also having issue with keeping up with technology. some of the biz i could get requires high tech (expensive) tools to accomplish the task. no tools, no job... this is effecting me too i believe..

What do you do (as a biz)?

 

[v1_0]

Re: How Bad

This country needs manufacturing jobs.

Amen to that. If you think about the movement of money like water: construction (and selling of natural resources) are adding water to the pool. Service industries (non export) are swirling it around in the pool. Goods and services from other contries are draining the pool....

 

[v1_0]

Re: How Bad

1,000% agree the entire mess has been caused by Wall St greed.

...

This whole financial mess was orchestrated exclusively by the alleged brilliant minds (and I use that term sarcastically) on Wall St. From Enron, to the mortgage shell game, to the run up of crude oil pricing by futures speculators - all thanks to Wall St morons. They fully trash the economy, run away with the millions they stole, and leave all of us standing here, wondering if we'll be working next month.

I disagree. The Government caused this. The CRA(Community Reinvestment Act) *mandated* that banks give out loans that they normally wouldn't. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act). I believe the intent was to reduce discrimination, but it's difficult to determine which is discrimination and what is bad loan avoidance. Be that as it may - I don't think we will be allowed to debate this in Iboats - the fact is that the government forced the banks to give out loans they probably weren't going to.

Along with this, the government also opened up the money tap (freddie mac, etc.) to help support the loans.

Some action groups - ACORN - came into being to help communities 'get thier piece' of the CRA.

The greedy people came along too - figuring they could use the 'more freely flowing' money to flip properties.

This activity stimulated the real estate market.

Wall Street did what Wall Street does - they gambled. The financial institutions learned to 'hide' bad loans in with the good. Since things were going so well - nobody cared to look at things too deeply.

Without any link on that chain, things wouldn't have happened like they did. I don't think any one link can be singled out for entirely causing things.

More, I think we would still be where we are - just by a different path. Our 'bring money into the country' type jobs (construction, etc) are lower than our ('send money out of the country') type activities (buying foreign products/services).

Which brings us to the real thing to solve: how do we increase our 'bring money into the country' activities? The alternative is to ride things out till where our productivity and pay ratio + other 'benefits to manufacturing' is equal to that of other countries (where the manufacturing is going)...

-V

 

[chiefalen]

Re: How Bad

I was staying away cause it was just to painful to keep reading the hurt and frustration of people just like me. And we all know the saying," for the grace of g-d go I ".

Hard working people, who never in their lives took a government check who want to work. Forgive me it's hard to type.

There is a way out but it will take a man with guts, and resolve to accomplish a turnaround in our economy.

It is a rather simple solution and will get manufacturing jobs back to this country, thats where my solution ties in.

Tax everything coming into this country that is made overseas.

Example, a starter made in china and sold here is sold below what it costs to make in china.

So if a starter made in china is sitting next to a starter made in the usa that costs the same we would buy the usa made starter.

And guess what china made products will stop flooding into this country.

Not just starters every thing made overseas, tax it to conform to the prices of us made goods.

That would open back up our factories, cars would start coming back off the assembly plants and people would have money to buy milk for the baby again.

But this would take like i say a guy who will have to turn a deaf ear to the special interest groups, Maybe the same guys that gave him the money to run in the first place.

Do we have that guy? Thats the question ?

How will history portray him in the years to come ??

But he better stop messing around with giving money away to the fat cats.

And better start thinking about the backbone of this country people like us, people that want to work, not the ones that never worked,will never work, and don't want to work.

Sorry if it was a long one, and thank you for reading it.

 

[oddjob]

Re: How Bad

I agree with v1_o.

Government created this and it started with the carter admin. , embraced by clinton in the 90's, and then in 2006 bush and other repubs warned congress that the bubble would burst as it just now did. you can see the hearings on utube. google it my fellow americans!

BTW if you hav'nt paid your taxes, a former lobbyist, and are in need of a job the prez needs a few more good men in his cabinet

Remember everyone......"Change We can believe in"...

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: How Bad

I disagree with blaming your Govt.

I put the blame down to a 'way of thinking', or 'a way of operating', that was pretty much developed after WW2, and not been updated or ammended since. The financial system is an old chaotic system that needs reform.

You are not the only country with the problem, and yours is not as bad a some others countries.
And other countries are far more financially sound that you, yet suffering the same.

You have a massive debt, we in Australia had a massive surplus.
Our income from exports exceeded our imports (because of the mass shipments of raw ore materials).
Our Banks are well capitalized, sound, profitable with good reserves.

Yet, as soon as your Govt began propping up your financial institutions, everybody ripped their money out of our economy and invested it in yours. Our dollar collapsed, and yours rose to a level that all but kills your exports.

Why is this happening?
My belief is, we are being manipulated by the greedy few, who in reality produce no product, few taxes, few jobs, and no flow-on effect to an economy in general.
These people measure their incomes in the 'thousands' too, but unlike you and me who work on a yearly cycle, they work on a daily one.

Ever met anyone who tells you: "Monday was a bit quiet, only knocked off $1,500, but Tuesday came right, got $7,000, Wed was sort of ok with $3,500, tomorrow will be a bummer, but I reckon Friday will be big."

That's where our problem lies...there is too much money for the suit in the middle who produces nothing.
That's why I believe reform is badly needed.

Just my interpretation.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: How Bad

Howdy folks! The actual problem is the govt' overspends and the people are conditioned to spend money that they have'nt yet earned.
The idea that if folks don't continue with this incredibly stupid habit, the economy will somehow collapse, implode, whatever....Hogwash i say.
Whatever happen to living within one's means?
People ought to be investing in tangibles, not in derivatives and fictitious internet companies.
The only ones making money are those vampires on Wallstreet, whether you sell or buy, they make money, the Dow goes up or down they make money.
The mere thought that it is ok to rip-off shareholders and then have the audacity to demand unstipulated sums of money from the taxpayers for a so called bailout is criminal to say the least.
We have no justice system in this country, what we have is a corrupt legal system operated by a corrupt government.

(I do apologize if the truth hurts, take an aspirin with a glass of coolaid)

 

[oddjob]

Re: How Bad

Kiwi I wont argue your opinion we clearly disagree. I will admit I know nothing about politics down under. Its alot to keep up with it just here in the US. Heck most obama supporters are not sure about who he is exactly, the media nevers asks anyway......and the people?.........mooooooo!.....moooooo!

Two of obamas cabinet members have been caught not paying their taxes!...theses are the folks who want to raise mine plus obama says there experts who will help him save the economy. BTW government does not fix economies untaxed business and people do.

Question for anyone: Why does obama need the repubs to pass the "porkulous bill"?

clue: when clinton became pres he passed the largest tax increase in history without any repub support. he had the dem majority just like obama does now.