How long till it freezes solid ?

[89retta]

Well there is always a lot of debate when it comes to winterizing. Mostly when it comes to using antifreeze or not. So since I live in the great white north in Edmonton. Thought now is the perfect time for a little test. Weather today is nice and sunny with a balmy temp of plus 5 Celsius. On Monday our temp is expecting a high of minus 25 to 30 Celsius. So since we are going to have a 25 degree temp change in a matter of days. I filled 3 bottles 1 with water , 1 with a 50/50 of water and rv antifreeze ( pink stuff ) and the last one 100% antifreeze. Will post when and if they all freeze.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Ted did the same test 2 years ago

 

[89retta]

Ted did the same test 2 years ago

And what were your results

 

[wrvond]

I tend to doubt any results are consistently identical. I've always bought more pink stuff than I need each season, and the extra jugs get left outside in the cold in the carport. Even with snow on the ground the jugs of pink stuff have stayed liquid. I've never had a frozen line in either of my travel trailers and never had any problem with a boat engine or outdrive.
​On the other hand, I have read posts where people have observed the antifreeze at least get slushy. Since the owner's manuals that came with my boats say to put in antifreeze, that's what I do. It's not up for debate because the manufacturer is the ultimate authority. I don't look at the threads as a debate though, I look at them as observations and experiences of various people in different localities with different kinds of weather and different techniques. At a minimum it causes me to be more careful in my winterization process. :thumb:

 

[bruceb58]

Since the owner's manuals that came with my boats say to put in antifreeze, that's what I do. It's not up for debate because the manufacturer is the ultimate authority.

Volvo uses the exact same engines as Mercruiser and they say to drain and make no mention of adding any antifreeze.

 

[tpenfield]

I think that Scott is referring to this test that I did, using the AF that came from a winterization of a Merc 7.4L where the AF was sucked in through the muffs. (it was also drained to avoid damage to the engine)

Not exactly what you are testing, but a similar idea.

 

[shaw520]

This was explained in another thread,... pink antifreeze WILL freeze,.. as will any antifreeze,... the difference is that it doesnt expand,.. it actually contracts as seen in the bottles in this video.

 

[89retta]

The contraction on the bottles is actually caused by the air. Air becomes more dense at colder temps.

 

[tpenfield]

Yes, the air, that's it.

No telling what happened to the liquid/now solid. I assume the water component of it expanded. Not sure about the net volume change though.

 

[garbageguy]

I think that whatever liquid you typically have, such as "pink antifreeze" - is water based. One of the (wonderful) properties of water is that it's density is lower when it turns from a liquid to a solid (freezes).

 

[wrvond]

I think that whatever liquid you typically have, such as "pink antifreeze" - is water based. One of the (wonderful) properties of water is that it's density is lower when it turns from a liquid to a solid (freezes).

​As water (or anything else) gets colder it gets more dense (not less). Frozen water is more dense than liquid water. Waters density lowers as it turns into a vapor.

​Additional stuff:
​I have friends that like to ride my boats, but this forum is as close as I come to having boating friends. People to chew the fat and talk about all things boating. One of the great things about this forum is it makes my think about stuff I've taken for granted for years.
​In this case all this talk about antifreeze led me to do something I must admit I've never done before - I sat down and read the labels on a jug of pink stuff.
​What I have on hand is CAMCO Arctic Ban -50 RV/Marine antifreeze for fresh water supply systems. Here is some stuff I found interesting:
Provides burst protection to -50*F
Remove all water before using. Do not dilute
​Contains denatured alcohol (ethyl alcohol 64-15-5)
Should not be used in boat engine.
For marine engine winterization recommend Ban Frost 2000 Marine Engine (Propylene Glycol)

 

[89retta]

I just the label on the stuff I bought. Basically says the same as you posted. Except for the part about using in engines. For that part it just says that it cannot be used as a heat transfer antifreeze like auto antifreeze. But heres the kicker it also says that it is normal for the product to freeze but wont cause damage.

 

[jimmbo]

​As water (or anything else) gets colder it gets more dense (not less). Frozen water is more dense than liquid water. Waters density lowers as it turns into a vapor.
QUOTE]


Water is a weird chemical. For most of the time as a liquid it does contract and increase in density as it gets colder, but at around 4C it starts to expand slightly and gets less dense, then at 0C it expands a lot as it freezes and loses more density. That's why ice floats, frozen water is less dense than liquid water. Then as the temp of ice drops it again increases in density but it will remain less dense than water.

 

[bruceb58]

​As water (or anything else) gets colder it gets more dense (not less). Frozen water is more dense than liquid water. Waters density lowers as it turns into a vapor.

LOL...you do realize there is a reason ice floats right?

 

[Rick Stephens]

LOL...you do realize there is a reason ice floats right?

Most other materials sink as they freeze. If water didn't float when frozen there would be no life on earth.

 

[GA_Boater]

Most other materials sink as they freeze. If water didn't float when frozen there would be no life on earth.

Would there be no hockey or ice fishing?

 

[aspeck]

Would there be no hockey or ice fishing?

It would definitely make it difficult to skate ... and drilling the hole in the ice to fish would be a problem!

 

[tpenfield]

Would there be no hockey or ice fishing?

. . . and so life would not be worth living . . .

 

[GA_Boater]

On the plus side - Figure Skating would not be clogging up the TV schedule. :lol:

 

[garbageguy]

Thanks guys - I was worried water's properties might have changed. And no hockey? That WOULD be cause for concern