How many times?

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

Already tried that Don, although the spark did improve slightly in the spark tester, alas it made no difference to the starting? also I am a bit confused, all the wiring diagrams show starters with their solenoid sitting on it, unless mine is hidden from view it does not seem to have one, both the battery + and - are bolted straight on to the pegs on the starter/ is this unique to my model?

 

[Fishermark]

Re: How many times?

although the spark did improve slightly in the spark tester...

Try the test without a tester. Simply remove a plug, put the wire back on, ground the head of the plug and try to see what the spark looks like then.

all the wiring diagrams show starters with their solenoid sitting on it, unless mine is hidden from view it does not seem to have one, both the battery + and - are bolted straight on to the pegs on the starter/ is this unique to my model?

You obviously have a solenoid somewhere. Either on the starter, or remotely. Trace the wires and see where they lead.

 

[Don S]

Re: How many times?

The 470's had some starters that did not have the solenoid on the starter.

Is the engine spinning over fast enough? I have seen boats where the starter turns the engine over, just not fast enough. Poor connections, dragging starter, lots of reasons. But they are hard to start when turning slowly.

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

Will try the test without the tester, the only solenoid i can see is the one i cleaned yesterday, the slave solenoid? yes Don it spins over pretty good batt showing 12.86v and only i month old

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

when it is cold i give two pumps then move the lever forward until it just starts to open the carb, turn the key, bang! fires up instantly every time, when hot, i have tried with lever down lever up lever part way up, moving the lever whist turning the engine over, move up too far and it floods, you name it and i bet i have tried it

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

Here is the update, having now established that my engine does not have two solenoids, just one switch type solenoid that acts as a starter solenoid, i thought i should test for grounding/earth, here,s what i have done; with everything turned off batt isolators off i checked for any continuity between any of the ignition switch posts (3) as the manual states that there should be none, I find continuity between 2 of the posts, the yellow and red wire and the purple wire, so i followed the yellow and red to the solenoid (type J1171) which has 4 posts, 2 large and 2 small, the large ones carry the main power via the solenoid to the starter, the smaller post on the left marked "s" has the yellow and red wire attached to it supplying 12v from the ignition switch, but it is grounded to earth? I removed the yellow and red wire leaving nothing on the post still grounded to earth? the other small post marked "i" has the yellow and purple going to the coil, PLEEASE can someone tell me that I am on the right track here, should either of the small posts be grounding?

 

[Don S]

Re: How many times?

I see the problem here, you said you have a 485, I gave you wiring diagrams for a 488. (NOT a 485) only missed that by 3 ........ :redface:

Anyway, the correct wiring diagram is in manual #3. You can find a couple different links to it in the Adults Only sticky at the top of the forum.

Here is a portion of the diagram, an NO neither of the small terminals are ground on that starter solenoid. The base where it bolts on is.

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

How about the purple wire? should that be grounded? with the ignition key switch off, if i connect the meter between an earth point and the purple wire post on the switch i get the continuity buzzer?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How many times?

You can't measure for continuity that way. There are many fairly low resistance paths to ground so your continuity checker will always show continuity.

 

[Fun Times]

Re: How many times?

What is the cold cranking amps of the new battery you have? what size battery cable do you have from the battery over to the starter or starter solenoid? Also is the battery cable or starter solenoid area prety hot when you go to start the hot engine? And how old is the battery cables?

 

[Fun Times]

Re: How many times?

How many times should my engine turn over before it starts? always starts fine when cold but once out to sea and drifting a wreck or starting after 20/30 mins it turns over between 6 and 10 times before it starts? is this normal for a 25 year old engine? the spark is weak, orange, instead of thick blue, the engine has 150psi on all four pistons ,new cylinder head,runs fine, new leads , points, condensor rotor arm, distributor cap, all set correct. I have 9.2 volts on the+ side of the coil and 7.6 volts on the - side have tried a jump wire from battery + to + side of coil, but made no difference to starting, also have got fuel pipe well away from any heat source, checked for voltage drop between battery and starter post (none) now i am stumped!

After sitting, When you turn the key on what does the temp gauge say? Also the fuel system could be hot. Do you have a infrared temp gun for heat testing? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96451 The area around the engine could be hot.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: How many times?

Also, what is your dwell and was it set with a dwell meter?

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

Ok guys here is the update,apologies for the delay but i have spent two days on the boat trying to fathom it out, beats me! I wish i had read your comment about not being able to check for continuity with a buzzer before i went to the boat, i finally worked out that the purple wire grounds through the instument panel light bulbs,
I have now replaced the solenoid and the coil as well as points, dist cap, ht leads, Battery cables condensor, rotor, and plugs, cleaned all the earths and live feeds all the way back to the batterys which are brand new 2x 105ah 800 cranking amps wired in parrallel 19mm leads,seperate battery for leisure,
no heating up on any cables or components when cranking the points are set at 22thou and the dwell was set by Dwell meter at 31degrees, i also measured the resistance in the resistor wire at1.7 ohms, i tried to check the timing with a timing light but the spark is not strong enough to make it shine on the marks it barely makes a red light, Bruce how should i check for continuity (test light?) regards and thanks in anticipation of a cure, Bill, head ache, nackered, fed up, all out of ideas, at least the fishing contest was postponed so i have some breathing space to sort it out,

 

[Don S]

Re: How many times?

i tried to check the timing with a timing light but the spark is not strong enough to make it shine on the marks it barely makes a red light

Being as you said red light, is your timing like like the one pictured? If so, put some new batteries in it.

Next, what type distributor do you have? Delco or Prestolite? Big difference in dwell settings between the 2.

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

My timing light does not need batteries, delco dist

 

[Fun Times]

Re: How many times?

My timing light does not need batteries, delco dist

Does the spark look the same too you cold as it does hot???

 

[Don S]

Re: How many times?

Have you tried disconnecting the tach from the coil and seeing if the spark is better?
Might also try disconnecting the shift interrupt switch and checking spark.
How about the connections in the Main engine harness. Are they clean and tight?

 

[billywhizz]

Re: How many times?

Hi fellas, back from another 2 days of head scratching, yep spark is the same hot or cold, I thought i would check the spark tester by trying it on the lawn mower,(Briggs and stratton) just in case, but it lit up like a christmas tree on the mower, maybe i should give up and go for Pertronix electronic ignition, are they really much better or is that sales patter? already tried the gray wire off, and the shift interupt, Don, the only way i seem to be able to get a stronger spark is to rig up a switched jumper from the batt + to the coil+ and switch it on with the engine runnning, then much better spark! but probably cooking me new coil, also begining to wonder if the alternator has anything to do with it the way in which it is wired seems unlike any other, see my other post.begining to hit the lost faith in my boat zone, Bill

yes Don cleaned and checked the harness connector

 

[gene8084]

Re: How many times?

Given what sounds like moderately slow cranking, if the engine is 25 years old and the starter is original, I'd pull it have it tested and rebuilt. You'll be amazed at the difference in cranking speed.​