How not to buy your dream boat

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

SnappingTurtle,

I posted 6 weeks after my last attempt to get the manufacturer and the dealer to step up and deal with the situation. That last attempt, was not my first attempt, and was 1 month after I received my boat. So I didn't post here until 2.5 months after delivery, numerous phone conversations and emails and even a personal appearance by the sales rep.

So no, I didn't bypass the local media. I've been watching for 2.5 months at what happens prior to posting here, how much longer should I have waited? Till the end of the season, which btw is typically the end of September up here (which is 8 weeks from now.)

I think you misunderstood me SturgeonLake, or I didn't make myself clear. I think you have been more than patient in this matter and I am behind you 100%.

I think you have done everything after the purchase right, except for maybe refusing delivery. But I can't say I wouldn't have done the same as you on the evening of delivery under the circumstances. We all no of the dangers of being temporarily blinded by a new toy, only to wake up the next day and find out it is full of mistakes.

For people like us, it is a once in a lifetime purchase.

We are not professional boat brokers and we don't do this everyday. The dealers & manufactures know this, and unfortunately, some use it to their advantage.

You should see what the big time buyers of Autos, Airplanes, and Yachts do before accepting delivery of such big ticket items. You think we throw a fit when it is not up to spec, you should see them in action. They use professionals who do nothing but this type of work, and sometimes it goes back and forth for months before the will sign off.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Following Riv's example, I'm posting here my email communications. This is the email I sent to Bennington's Ryan Garling (Customer Support) and Hastings Marine (general delivery email, they don't have individual accounts) on 7/30 at 6:19pm.

Hi, remember me? Russ Cooper from Lindsay (705-878-3405)? Nothing has happened since we last spoke. Since nobody has contacted me to pursue my issues and get them finished, I'm contacting you both.

I thought you might like to see a video I did of my attempt to use my playpen cover. For some interesting reason it comes in two parts and there's no way to put those two parts together. Makes an interesting opening for the weather, wind, and anything else that might want to come in. How come it doesn't look like every other playpen cover I've seen...namely one continuous piece front to back? Also, isn't it intended to be put on while the boat is on a trailer? Its unbelievably difficult to do while on one side of a dock.

Video
http://flickr.com/photos/27208216@N06/2718125774/

Still Picture
http://flickr.com/photos/27208216@N06/2717302635/in/photostream/

Issues still outstanding:

1. I wanted screened drapes as an enclosure rather than the canvas with plastic windows that was sent. Hastings took the drapes several weeks after delivering the boat. I don't want them, I want my money back for them. Hastings were not interested in getting new drapes made for me (unless they were coming complete from you, but you have since indicated you cannot supply screened drapes.)

2. Igloo Cooler for the ottoman still has not been supplied.

3. Center tube gets water in it every time it rains. It isn't pumped out until when?? Why couldn't the lid have been water-tight? A rubber gasket??

4. I'd like to return the console gauges. They're useless compared to digital gauges that could tell me what I need to know, like water pressure in the motor for example. I am having to buy the Yamaha Command-Link system in order to get reliable water pressure numbers given how weedy my bay is. I have to either mount additional gauges on the console (which will look ugly) or simply buy the Yamaha multi-function gauges to fit into the existing console bays.

5. I'd like to return the Garmin fish finder. I asked Hasting to mount my original fish finder, but they said the cable was too short. I have purchased an additional cable. Further, since I have not speedometer from the motor (it plugged up in 3 days and I'm told it cannot be cleaned out), my GPS on my old fish finder would at least give me some indication of speed.

6. I'd like to return the Porta-Pottie. The one I was sold is illegal here in Ontario. I have since purchased a legal one and had it legally mounted. Hastings were not interested in pursuing this either (they said they had no experience.)

7. As discussed, I would like a new bimini roof canvas. I believe it was mounted incorrectly causing it to leak on the seams. I will arrange for it to be mounted and accept responsibility for it to be done correctly (IOWs, if it doesn't work this time it's my fault, not yours.)

8. The carpeting at the back of the boat is turning green. Isn't this carpeting supposed to be more resistant to such things?

9. I still need a door stop to hold the door open.

10. Could you tell me how to use the fresh water pump in the entertainment center? All I can get it to do is spit out water with such force it doesn't stay in whatever I'm putting it in. I didn't find any instructions anywhere.

I have taken it upon myself to make many other alterations, things Hastings might have done but only at the expense of me giving them the boat for an undetermined amount of time in the middle of the season. I've moved the batteries, rewired the power steering and the telephone cradle, and installed a legal porta-pottie. I only wish I had found the new marina I am now using before I bought this boat...they really know what Customer Satisfaction means.

I don't suppose there's any way to simply return this boat and get my money back, eh?

Cheers,
Russ

I received a "Read Receipt" on 7/31 at 8:40am from Ryan's email. I've not had any other communcation from either party. You'd have thought he might have at least called me by now to say he was looking into things.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Sounds to me like somebody did not do their homework and now wants to blame it on everyone else. When I built my custom house, I had to go through every last detail, my builder was great and worked me through most of them but I still had to fill in some of the blanks. You made a lot of assumptions and then didn't get what you wanted, not surprising.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Interesting perspective cmcpherson, although I disagree with it. I too built my custom home, in 2001, so I had that experience under my belt when I bought this boat. I do believe that available information is very different for some boat manufacturers than is the case for most home components.

Hopefully we can agree that knowing the questions to ask, and having a good understanding of the answers one should expect, make a significant difference. The former can be found online, the latter, I believe, only comes from bad experiences.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Based on what you have posted, I am not sure you can disagree with me...

 

[5150abf]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I got with Andrew today and he had just had a chance to read the post at 11:30 but assured me he would personally call the dealer and start working this out.

To clarifiy, Andrew is in charge of customer service for all 4 Bennington brands, Azure and Southwind fiberglass and Sedona and Bennington pontoons, so this is as far up as you can go and I am certain it will be settled soon.

In our defense we can only control what happens to the boat up untill it leaves the plant, after that it is up to the dealer and this one obviously dropped the ball more than once, if the dealer ordered a camper enclosure and told the customer it was a "bug room" we aren't at fault for that, he got what the dealer ordered.

Bennington didn't get to be where and what we are by treating customers badly.

This problem will delt with soon.

I am sure Sturgeonlake will post updates as they become available.

 

[marine4003]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Sounds to me like somebody did not do their homework and now wants to blame it on everyone else. When I built my custom house, I had to go through every last detail, my builder was great and worked me through most of them but I still had to fill in some of the blanks. You made a lot of assumptions and then didn't get what you wanted, not surprising.

There is no way one can compare the two, building a home and ordering a boat ? that's a huge stretch....I am a general contractor in trade and deal with 15-25 homes a year,all have architects,and if they don't,before i start..I strongly suggest they hire one.Reason : Get me plans and I'll build it,but i dont want to be hassled with :what type of dishwasher,wall sconces or table lamp,carpet & paint ect.....these are issues an architect deals with..same as a boat dealer, The comparison between the two is faulty for a number of reasons, 1)- builders are just that- Carpenters,they are not designers,architects,engineers ect,...there Carpenters.
Boat Dealers are the equivalent of architects....Supposed to know everything about the product,how it all fits together,what works what doesn't,costs,handle problems,In general is RESPONSIBLE for there statements,promises,time-line ect...Given that most people who buy boats from Dealers will be novice,it is the Dealers JOB to guide the purchaser thru all aspects of buying a boat,and if by chance something falls thru the cracks...guess what, -the dealer markup & the shiny plaque on the wall designating the dealer as a rep of the boat company is supposed to be insurance against problems & assumptions. But to equate the building of a home....to using a BOAT DEALER to order a boat,not even close.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

There is no way one can compare the two, building a home and ordering a boat ? that's a huge stretch....I am a general contractor in trade and deal with 15-25 homes a year,all have architects,and if they don't,before i start..I strongly suggest they hire one.Reason : Get me plans and I'll build it,but i dont want to be hassled with :what type of dishwasher,wall sconces or table lamp,carpet & paint ect.....these are issues an architect deals with..same as a boat dealer, The comparison between the two is faulty for a number of reasons, 1)- builders are just that- Carpenters,they are not designers,architects,engineers ect,...there Carpenters.
Boat Dealers are the equivalent of architects....Supposed to know everything about the product,how it all fits together,what works what doesn't,costs,handle problems,In general is RESPONSIBLE for there statements,promises,time-line ect...Given that most people who buy boats from Dealers will be novice,it is the Dealers JOB to guide the purchaser thru all aspects of buying a boat,and if by chance something falls thru the cracks...guess what, -the dealer markup & the shiny plaque on the wall designating the dealer as a rep of the boat company is supposed to be insurance against problems & assumptions. But to equate the building of a home....to using a BOAT DEALER to order a boat,not even close.

Not really much of an argument, but whatever. And, what if the builder was also the architect?

 

[marine4003]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I dont know about the boat dealers in the rest of the country,but here in coastal NC/SC there professionals,there out using the boats they sell,understanding there product,knowing what the manufacturer's special order capability's are,as i stated before....you go to a marine boat dealer because you EXPECT them to know there product....you expect them to be able to outfit the boat any way you choose,that's the reason there in business.and why dealers will rep more than one line of boat.....its also the reason for all the certificates on the wall of the sale managers office...it tells you there knowledgeable and trained in there representation of there line of boats.To tell the PO he was being unrealistic in expecting quality service from his Bennington dealer,is tantamount to telling your Mercedes dealer how to do his job.....One more time.......you use a specified boat dealer representing the boat of your choosing because you EXPECT him to know his job..anything less ...unacceptable.

PS- what if the builders also an architect???? what are you kidding me ? i was referring to your statement about your experience,not some poor analogy.

 

[cmcpherson]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I dont know about the boat dealers in the rest of the country,but here in coastal NC/SC there professionals,there out using the boats they sell,understanding there product,knowing what the manufacturer's special order capability's are,as i stated before....you go to a marine boat dealer because you EXPECT them to know there product....you expect them to be able to outfit the boat any way you choose,that's the reason there in business.and why dealers will rep more than one line of boat.....its also the reason for all the certificates on the wall of the sale managers office...it tells you there knowledgeable and trained in there representation of there line of boats.To tell the PO he was being unrealistic in expecting quality service from his Bennington dealer,is tantamount to telling your Mercedes dealer how to do his job.....One more time.......you use a specified boat dealer representing the boat of your choosing because you EXPECT him to know his job..anything less ...unacceptable.

PS- what if the builders also an architect???? what are you kidding me ? i was referring to your statement about your experience,not some poor analogy.

Well, I was not kidding you, however obviously you are a joke, glad you are not building my house! The analogy stands and your latest post even more says that it is correct. You profess to be an expert in both areas, obviously people should question that...

 

[marine4003]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Sir, if your intent is to insult me...at least make sense...

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

Ok guys, ease up here now.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

5150abf,

Thanks! I certainly will keep this thread informed of all communications, especially progress.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

5150abf,

A simple introductory phone call from Bennington/Andrew would go a long way right now.

 

[5150abf]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I called him twice today and he was in meetings both times, I will leave him a voice mail in the morning to see what is going on.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat - Vendor contact

Re: How not to buy your dream boat - Vendor contact

Just got off the phone with Andrew from Bennington Marine...thanks 5150abf!

Here's what is being done.

Playpen cover: They are sending me a piece of canvas and several zippers to allow me to get someone to patch up the playpen cover. I prefer this since I want to have screen drapes made for the "bug room" and will need to have 1/2 of the playpen cover attach to those drapes.

1. We talked about the "bug room" drapes, but I don't remember now what he said they'd do about them. I didn't start taking notes until a little bit into the call (as he kinda caught me off guard by asking what my problems were.) My bad. I'll call him back tomorrow and find out what he said.

2. There isn't supposed to be an igloo cooler in the ottoman. The ottoman is insulated, but nothing goes in it other than beverages and ice. Shame. Misunderstanding by Bennington during my support calls, they thought I had a coffee table (which opens to a removable cooler.)

3. He confirmed that the center tube storage compartment is intentionally not water tight. He gave me one of thos "Doh!" moments when he reminded me that the door to the tube has slits right through it...so even a gasket isn't going to make it water tight. So basically, to solve my problem of the water getting in there I have to get a working playpen cover. He also confirmed that there is an automatic bilge pump in the tube which works even if the boat is not running. Given how much rain we've been having I've been concerned the thing might get too much in it.

4. I'm being sent an Return Authorization form for the gauges, with the understanding I'll be sending back my gauges within 60-90 days. This lets me go ahead and get the Command-Link and Yamaha gauges via the other marina.

5. Turns out the Garmin Fish Finder is standard on my boat. Suprise to me.

6. They've told me to keep the Porta Potti, but they'll be giving me a credit for it.

7. They're going to talk to their supplier of Bimini tops to see what they recommend regarding the leaking roof. I've agreed to wait and see what they say. Hopefully it won't be to try seam leak.

8. Mold will turn any quality of carpet green, the difference is in how easily that carpeting can be cleaned. So it?s not unexpected that the carpet has turned green, I just need to get to it to clean it. It should clean fairly easily, I'm told. That satisfies me.

9. They're sending me a gatestop which I can install to hold the side door open.

10. No real solution regarding the fresh water pump. I think I'll just pump into a bag and then pour the water from the bag into whatever. There aren't any instructions, unfortunately.

Andrew was very nice to talk to. He had answers, and made decisions, and made the whole conversation positive. I've no way of knowing what influence he could have wielded over Hastings had I got to him earlier in this process. As it is, everything we talked about had nothing to do with the dealer. Since I've already had done all that the dealer might have done, they're out of the picture save giving me the refund that Bennington ultimately gives them. That should be interesting.

Now to find a canvas craftsman and get more information about Command-Link.

So far, so good, thanks Bennington!

 

[5150abf]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

As I said we didn't get to be who and where we are by treating customers badly.

Glad you got this worked out.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

This is the way you want such a situation to end.

I am glad things are moving forward SturgeonLake. Nice intervention by 5150abf, hats off to Bennington Marine and Andrew for stepping up to the plate to set things right.

This should be a lessen to some of the other manufactures here, who run and hide behind their attorneys at the first sign of trouble.

I'll put Bennington back on my list of manufactures to check out, should any friends, or family ever ask for a tip in this boat sector.

 

[SturgeonLake]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I did want to give a big thanks to iBoats.com and these forums. Not only did they allow my post to be published without modification (unlike another forum I published it in), but they've established themselves well enough to attract (at least) 5150abf and maybe more importantly, gave 5150abf the confidence to speak up and say he/she was a Bennington employee.

I work for a Fortune 15 company and speak publicly on their behalf, so I know the problems that can ensue when someone speaks out on behalf of their company without official permission. 5150abf's intervention could have resulted in all sorts of unwanted comments, but he/she felt comfortable knowing that these forums would be a safe place to "come out."

I'll be happy to refer people here in future when they have a boating question, no doubt about it.

 

[SnappingTurtle]

Re: How not to buy your dream boat

I did want to give a big thanks to iBoats.com and these forums. Not only did they allow my post to be published without modification (unlike another forum I published it in), but they've established themselves well enough to attract (at least) 5150abf and maybe more importantly, gave 5150abf the confidence to speak up and say he/she was a Bennington employee.

I work for a Fortune 15 company and speak publicly on their behalf, so I know the problems that can ensue when someone speaks out on behalf of their company without official permission. 5150abf's intervention could have resulted in all sorts of unwanted comments, but he/she felt comfortable knowing that these forums would be a safe place to "come out."

I'll be happy to refer people here in future when they have a boating question, no doubt about it.

They let this one run to a happy end for all concerned, but just closed the Donzi thread.

So while I was rather pleased as to this moment with iboats independence, and believe in the importance that the press was for all to use, perhaps I was hast in this thought.

Once again congratulations to all involved, and special accolades to 5150abf, who at a lesser company could have lost his/her job for the public intervention.