How not to wire a boat!

[Realgun]

<br /><br />This is the negative ground wire as you see there are 4 wires wrapped into the main wire and then soldered and taped to death with electical tape.<br /><br />The boat actually works and so did the accessories the first time but after that nothing has worked ecept the motor and til/trim. No lights, horn, or Bilge pump.<br /><br />I am kinda glad as it was a disaster waiting to happen!

 

[Realgun]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

My favorite part is the green ground strap for the fuel tank. It was wraped into the ground wire 3 feet from the tank. And taped like crazy too.

 

[John McFarlane]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Sorry, I must be missing something. Where is the problem? <br />Is it the soldering? (Should it have been terminated in a terminal lug then left to fill with moisture and corrode to death) <br />Is it that 4 wires become 1? <br />Should all earth wires travel the length of the boat to be terminated at the battery? (think of voltage loss) <br />Is it the taping?(Should it have been covered with Heatshrink?)<br />I can only see 3 wires not 4 joined to what appears to be a larger 'main' type black wire.<br />So now nothing works, but the soldered and now exposed connection still appears intact and conductive.<br /><br />What are you saying please?

 

[OBJ]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

In a way, I can see Realguns point of view John. It looks like the wiring job was a do as you go job with no real plan in mind. This makes it a real beoch to trouble shoot or fix a problem. A job like this should have a plan.....careful thought should go into terminations, where grounds will be and how all the accesories will be wired in for easy access. No kidding, spagetti under the dash and in the bildge area ain't no fun to troubleshot.

 

[Realgun]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

John all wire should be terminated. Wire is not allowed to be wrapped and soldered then wraped in electrical tape. It real is a PIA to figure out and is not at all what the USCG wants and most of all its not safe!<br /><br />There are 4 wire there two are parallel and the camera is not a hi-res enough to show.<br /><br />All wires could have been terminated in a negative bus but Either Bayliner or the previous owner were very very stupid. The ground wire for the tank could have cause a fire right near the fuel tank.

 

[John McFarlane]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

But it's an earth wire, so is terminated at the battery negative terminal. That is, no voltage will be present unless it becomes disconnected at the battery, which is most unlikely. <br /><br />I appreciate the 'spaghetti' comment though. Never looks good and is a pain to work on.<br /><br />But joining wires together, soldering and wrapping in tape is almost as old as the steam engine. It was how most wiring was assembled up until quite recently and in most instances is an acceptable method of attachment (though I would do it a different way if it was in a plane). It is secure, electrically conductive, protected (when taped) and convenient.<br /><br />So my question remains. Should the earth wires have all been run back down to the battery? (More spaghetti) And if you mounted an earth bus somewhere up front and ran all the earths to it, aren't you doing the same thing, albiet a little more gracefully, as what has been done here with the exception that have now exposed the connectors and bus to the elements?<br /><br />To my observations, there is absolutely nothing wrong with what someone has done here, electrically at least, aesthetically, maybe.<br /><br />Sorry for the rant. 30 years as an Auto Electrician does it to you.

 

[roscoe]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

I wish my house wiring looked as good.

 

[Realgun]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

No John all wires in a boat should be crimped and use a terminal wire nuts and wrapping wire around another wire is not going to be accepatable by the USCG or ABYC. For good reason. There is a lot more vibration and corrosion on a boat then a car.<br />I understand your a car tech and thats how cars are done but a boats a different animal. <br /><br />This might help you understand but its a big READ enjoy.

 

[Paul Moir]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

That's a lash splice, and I believe that qualifies as the mechanical component of the splice. Saying that the USCG and ABYC only allow for crimped splices is simply untrue. Soldered splices are allowed as long as the solder is not the sole means of mechanical connection.<br />Here's some more info on that sort of splice for the uninformed:<br /> Splice info, click here.

 

[snagroms]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

I recently picked up an 83 center console hull that needs an entire re wire and have been following the crimp vs. solder debate with intrest (good laughs many a time). I also picked up Ed Sherman's book and read with care to better understand the marine environment (especially that nasty salt water I have to deal with). I have a fair amount of electrical experience and am comfortable with a solder gun or crimper.<br /><br />With that said the lash splice Paul's link points to is certainly a legitimate connection mechanism. However, I have not seen a single lash type connection in a boat executed anywhere near this level or standard. Usually its wire wrapped with wire or a wire nut then taped. Also the Nasa page does say that all lash connections in Flexure zones require proper support. Most areas in a boat would fall into the flexure zone category. In Realgun's picture I don't see support for the connection in question. The connection may be mechanically correct but to finish it there needs to be support for the wires.<br /><br />Solder vs. Crimp is always interesting (and fun to debate) but supporting either correctly is important.<br /><br />Just my opinion!<br /><br />Cheers!

 

[18rabbit]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

My feeble memory is having problems with this. I remember reading something about the mechanical connection specifically needing to be “clamped” or held by “compression”. Can’t remember where I read it. But I remember at the time I was thinking modular terminal blocks were described almost to a ‘T’, and anything held in place by a screw also met spec.<br /><br />Maybe a lashing splice is ok, maybe not. I wouldn’t do it because of the time it would take to do the lashing splice and the need for a single piece of over-sized, high shrink ratio, adhesive-lined heat shrink to seal the connection means I need to disconnect at least one of the other wires.<br /><br />And technically, since the lashing example in Paul’s link requires the use of a solid conductor, it doesn’t belong on a boat. No solid wire conductors and no aluminum conductors at all. Personally, I wouldn’t have a problem with a solid conductor lashing if properly supported (the copper conductors will harden when soldered), and I don’t have a problem with the aluminum conductor in ATO/C fuses…which technically should not be on a boat, either.

 

[John McFarlane]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

I would imagine there may be someone with a military marine electrical engineering background who drops in to this forum from time to time. I would be interested in getting their opinion, specifically on joining of wires in marine applications. I cannot imagine the USS Enterprise steaming into the Persian Gulf with its electrical systems held together by mechanical connections. <br /><br />As already said,I believe a 'properly' made soldered electrical connection is superior to a mechanical one. Note I said 'properly'. Properly bared wires, properly lashed wires, properly soldered connection and lastly, but perhaps most importantly, properly sealed joint.<br /><br />But in the long run I suppose it comes down to taking the time to do the job properly, whatever you believe. A properly made mechanical connection is going to work, same as a properly made soldered connection.<br /><br />But 30km out to sea with dark clouds ahead of a soueaster, I'm going to be glad that my 10 year old electrical connections are soldered. And I have a spare outboard sitting beside the biggun. And lifejackets on board. And I took the time to notice the lay of the bar on the way out.<br /><br />Now back to the task in hand. Should I solder or not the electrical connections on my SS Minnow.

 

[Realgun]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

So is the wires ok or not? Ir eally does not matter they went into the trash already. As a matter of fact al the wiring in the boat except from the engin to the switch are being replaced.<br />Every connection is crimped then sealed with heat shrink. no solder here. But at least I took the time to find tinned wire. That stuff is hard to find here had to order most of it. <br /><br />I though that it was really strage to see the main negative wire used as a bus. Oh well at least I know everthing will work when I am done.<br />Better than can be said before.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Well John I think I qualify. Every white radome you see on a US Navy ship is tied to a satcom program I was personally involved in for many years. In addition, I worked for years on projects for the US Air force Geophysics lab - in particular rocket and space shuttle borne telemetry systems. 95% (maybe more) of all electrical connection (circuit boards excluded) are mechanical because they are reliable and, with the RIGHT tools, easy to accomplish.<br /><br />Soldering is tightly regulated in aerospace & defense. Only highly trained and certified people can touch an iron. Why? Because it is so easy to do it wrong. <br /><br />With the right crimper, wire and terminals, crimping is hard to do wrong. Now, if you're trying to crimp a connection with a cheap terminal and pair of pliers, it would be impossible to do it "right."<br /><br />I'll just include this snipet from an article written for a marine mag<br /><br />

<br />As mentioned, crimping action work hardens the connector barrel, making the joint mechanical strong and stable. If you solder a crimped joint, you may, in heating the connector, soften the copper, making the joint loosen. Now it is the solder only which provides the strength of the joint. But if the joint is subjected to vibration, the solder, in absorbing mechanical energy over a period of time, may crystallize, and the joint may actually fail altogether.<br /><br />Melted solder may flow through "wicking" action up the strands of wire, thus creating a stiff, solid section just behind a terminal. Since the terminal itself is made fast to a post or stud, the place where the solder stiffened section abruptly merges with the stranded, unsoldered wire is relatively unsupported. Vibrational flexing of the wire is concentrated at this interface, leading to hardening, embrittlement, and eventual failure.

I'll just add that tensile strength, while important, is only one component of failure - the more important one on a boat (or rocket) IMHO is ability to tolerate prolonged, sustained vibration which these craft constantly sustain. Everything on a boat is a " flexure zone"

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Just because it looks old and different after 20 years of service DOES mean,--- it has NOT had a recall like Mercedes-Benze car wiring after 2-3 years. So much for modern safety standards. Big 3 included.

 

[tengals123]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

right or wrong, I would'nt stand for boat wirring in my boat looking like that. For my own peice of mind. Just my Opinion.<br />cheers

 

[Realgun]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Thanks Tengals that what I am saying. I am finding that all the wiring outside of the actual engine harness is horrible. And even the engine wiring harness has a purple wire for the tach. The tach is supposed to be grey. But I can live with this as it is clearly marked on the engine as to what the tach color is.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

For all us neatnicks, I would also change all the not neat wiring. A little wave jumping and "what happened" at night.

 

[MrBigStuff]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Originally posted by Realgun:<br /> But at least I took the time to find tinned wire

Aren't mechanical crimps a problem with tinned wire? Cold flow of the tinning affects the mechanical integrity of the crimp over time. At least that's my experience. Any compression of solder or tinning will cold flow the material over time and the crimp loosens.

 

[Yepblaze]

Re: How not to wire a boat!

Is that on, or in a Bayliner?