How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Why is it you say the motor is too large? I'm just a bit confused because aren't you supposed to have the cavitation plate as low as the back of the transom or keel?
But ya, the boat design I really, really like(did I mention really?), and the 115 hp is the max for the boat, so I consider that a good combo even though it won't go 70 mph
Honestly I got the boat and motor for 2k, put about 1-1.5k into the both of them so far, more into the motor than the boat, but cosmetically the boat itself is really nice. Since I do like to fix things up and make the most of my money, I really don't consider putting another few thousand into it a bad thing since it seems all boats have negatives one way or another, and if I put the time into it to properly restore it and the engine.. /shrug

I most likely do intend to sell the cmc plate and get a jack plate. From what I've read PTT isn't really required with a jack plate, so I think it might be an ok resolution after I gut the boat and redo the internals. That and currently the setback is 6" with the cmc, I'm looking at the 4" jack plates as a replacement.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Bah, that 85 midget boat is in Georgia... lol

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

the engine is for a boat with a 20" transom and you have a 15" transom... that is the reason that it is mounted so screwy... the anti vent plate should be ABOVE the bottom of the hull and the more setback you have the higher it should be... PTT isn't NECESSARY but it is nice to have... the Jack plate has nothing to do with it...

Saying that the motor isn't wrong for the boat is like a guy who has a size 10 foot walking around in size 15 shoes with rags stuffed in the toes saying they fit just fine..... it works but it ISN'T ideal.

Nobody told you to dump your boat..... Fact is that your boat and motor ARE NOT made for each other... you either have to make em work together or make a change.... entirely up to you but you DID come asking for help.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Bah, that 85 midget boat is in Georgia... lol

nooooooo it's in your backyard in Milledgeville IA

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

the engine is for a boat with a 20" transom and you have a 15" transom... that is the reason that it is mounted so screwy... the anti vent plate should be ABOVE the bottom of the hull and the more setback you have the higher it should be... PTT isn't NECESSARY but it is nice to have... the Jack plate has nothing to do with it...

Saying that the motor isn't wrong for the boat is like a guy who has a size 10 foot walking around in size 15 shoes with rags stuffed in the toes saying they fit just fine..... it works but it ISN'T ideal.

Nobody told you to dump your boat..... Fact is that your boat and motor ARE NOT made for each other... you either have to make em work together or make a change.... entirely up to you but you DID come asking for help.

Ahh, found Milledgeville, it's little east into Illinois. Funny there's one in Georgia too. heh

As far as the transom, it measures 19" from transom cap, to bottom of transom, not counting the 2-3" to bottom of keel.
15" transom though, am I measuring wrong? I drew a red line in the pic, but ya, unless I'm measuring incorrectly it's 19".

An by no means am I not looking for info, I am, but technicalities are only technicalities... They safely can mount a v8 in a Miata, but that isn't a 100% death rate (my car's a Miata lol, tempted to do it, but it would kill handling, but that's another story!)

As far as the jackplate setup, I was intending to go with 4" to alleviate some of the increased pressure on the transom from the setback, until I realized the whole wood rot problem with older boat transoms..
Might go the extra mile to grab up the PTT cylinders and motor I found on ebay, but from my understanding with a jackplate, you can just set the vertical position of the motor and just leave it if you have a jackplate? I was confused as to how you would use a transom saver if you can tilt the motor?

I am very thankful for your advice, and everyone elses, I've learned a whole bunch in the last few months, but I'm a firm believer that there's always more to learn!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

OK well maybe we need to backtrack a little.... do you maybe have a 25" motor .....top of transom clamp to antivent plate...?

This puzzle stuff is a pita... what I could tell in 10 seconds standing next to the boat takes days this way.. ugh

There has to be a reason it is hung so high on the trim unit and in the pic it still looked too low compared to the keel.

on most boats there are 3 basic transom heights and matching shaft lengths for the motors
15" = short
20" = long
25" = extra long

there are longer ones but you don't have one of those

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

you ALWAYS need to be able to tilt the motor but you don't have to have an electric motor to do it for you.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

So I took more pics and measured, marked on pic. From the oem clamp, where it would sit on the transom is 20" counting the big thick bracket 22" to main antivent plate right above prop. Where it sits on the transom now to what it would have on the oem bracket, it currently sits 1.25" higher than the transom.

Also as to why it sits so high on the plate I'm guessing, is the same reason it's missing the bottom part of the skeg. If the engine were any lower, I couldn't put it down. I have a funny feeling the PO found that out because I do see one other position marks on the cmc plate and they were if the motor was lower. Also, if the full skeg was there right now, I would probably be sitting on concrete with it straight vertical maybe.. also I saw thathese motors are supposed to kick up if in forward gear? I put mine down, put it in forward gear, pulled on it pretty good, but never popped up? :|

Also in regards to the length for shafts, I saw 15-19 is medium and 20-25 is long?



Good point on the manual tilt, completely forgot about the whole manual PTT brackets...

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Also in regards to the length for shafts, I saw 15-19 is medium and 20-25 is long?

nope.... there is sometimes an inch or two of variance but it is as I listed above....

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

sooo maybe it isn't as bad as we thought at first... The reason the motor doesn't kick up is shown in your second pic in the last post... it's bolted solid... without the factory PTT system it would otherwise flip up when you put it in reverse... nothing you can really do about it except hope that the CMC unit will let it move if you hit something....

I BET that the CMC unit could be raised an inch or two on the transom (can't remember if they have multiple mounting holes) and then the engine lowered on the cmc unit...

I had it in my head that you had a 50 hp engine... I dunno if the PTT on the 50 would work on your 115

 

[Chris1956]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Kung, I believe you have a 20" transom and a 20" motor shaft. There was no definitive picture showing relationship of antiventilation plate with keel, but I will bet what you have now is pretty close and will work.

BTW - A PTT system is much more important that a manual Jackplate. I would stick with what you have. You have two chores to do before boating. First you must install the two bottom transom bolts from engine transom bracket to CMC unit. Second, you must lock the motor down in some fashion, so it cannot tilt on its own. The CMC unit must do all the tilting.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

From my measurements Chris, the transom is indeed 19", and then there's 2-3 inches to keel. (bottom of extra bilge area in couple pics)

As far as the 'tilting on it's own', I don't think that's possible. After pulling on it myself under controlled conditions, landing on the wing dam, and also when I first got it I forgot to put the motor up when I pulled it slowly out of the water at the ramp. It didn't move any of these times.. (luckily I somehow didn't break the skeg any more than it already is)

I'm definitely considering the jack plate though, it would make shallows and bow lift a bit nicer. If I tilt the motor down as far as it goes, I don't have much of an issue with the bow lift that's present, but that takes about 8-10" away from my shallow running..

Planning on tearing the cap off within a few weeks to address a few concerns, hopefully I can swing all this to do at least a couple weeks of fishing before the winter comes!

Thanks for the help fellas, I'll see what I can find at the hardware store!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

I did a bit of research... I couldn't originally tell from your pics but it looks like you actually have a clamp bracket adapter plate from CMC and it is built MUCH sturdier than your pics show..... I think adding the bottom bolts to the motor would make it safe... AS for replacing the CMC PTT with a jackplate... it would be fine but only if you add the factory PTT... I would certainly choose PTT over a jackplate for anything but a small race boat.

ALSO the CMC PTT unit IS designed to be height adjustable where it bolts to the transom... the bottom holes are slotted and there are multiple top holes,

here are the installation and operation instructions.

http://www.cmcmarineproducts.com/userfiles/file/PDF manuals and fliers/CMC PT-130 Owners Manual.pdf

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Hey thanks for the pdf Smoke!

I do like the ptt unit but it would be really nice to get rid of the amount of bow lift in shallow water.. I guess I'll just worry about the bolts for now
I do see they say to drill the cmc plate for the bottom bolts, wonder why the PO never did that..

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

to get rid of bow lift look into smart tabs
SMART TABS raise your performance expectations.

they'll do more than a jack plate would

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Ya, I have thought about that, though I like the physics of a jackplate boat... heh can't ignore it.. I've got other stuff that needs addressing before anything else though.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

I put a set of Smart Tabs on my runabout during the rebuild. Found them online somewhere for $100.

Closest thing I have ever found to a "miracle" product in all my years. I would dare say the best money I will ever spend on my boat, ever.

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Double post*

 

[kungpaoshizi]

Re: How to validate the condition of the wood inside the transom

Just in case anyone has the same situation, I was able to get spacers (thicker "washers") to allow a flush mounting, pretty solid now. Space was ~5/8" so a 1/2" + a 1/8" worked quite well.

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