Hull Types? - New Boater Help

[Venoms]

Hey guys,

I'm now looking to buy a boat for the first time. We've done a bit of research, and gather that the Deep Vee hull will be best for us due to the smooth ride. We plan to spend most of our boating time at Lake Tahoe, and it can get a bit choppy there from time to time.

But I'm curious, which is more important for a smooth ride, the hull style or the size of the boat.

Currently we're looking at these three boats:

2005 Bayliner 195 - (19' 2091lbs) Deep Vee
2000 Crownline 205 - (20' 3500lbs) Modified Vee
1997 Four Winns 220 Horizon (22' 3350lbs) Deep Vee???

I am not 100% sure what the Hull Type of the 220 Horizon is, but the deadrise is 20 degrees, so I think that qualifies as Deep Vee? I also could not find the deadrise on the 2000 Crownline, but there was a 2001 showing 16 degree deadrise. How much difference would 4 degrees make in the ride?


So just wondering between these three boats, which would probably give the smoothest ride?


I would assume the 1997 Four Winns 220 Horizon if it is a Deep Vee and the fact it's the largest of the three. I assume the 2000 Crownline 205 would be the worst since it's a Modified Vee.

Then my question would be, assuming the condition of all these boats and engine hours are equal, and the prices are about the same, which would be the best value purchase? The Crownline actually has a new engine with less than 100hrs on it. Although I suspect the 2005 Bayliner may be best value due to being the newest at 2005. But the Four Winns is in good shape plus some nice extra features?


Just wondering if anyone with boating experience has any input on this?

Thanks!!!

 

[H20Rat]

Age means nothing! Bayliners are entry level boats, and although their build quality in recent years isn't too bad, they are often bought by people new to boating who often don't know how to maintain a boat. (no offense meant, you are already light years ahead by asking for advice here! But the reality is bayliners are usually rode hard and put away wet, as the saying goes.)

Don't be overly concerned about hull type, those are all relatively similar hulls. Even if the crownline has less deadrise, it is a heavier boat and MUCH better built than the bayliner. (there is a reason the bayliner is 1500# lighter than the nearly same length crownline!)

Anyway, it all comes down to condition and maintenance. A 20 year old can be near spotless if the owner cared for it, and a 2 year old boat can be trashed. If condition and price are equal, I'd choose the crownline, no question. The four winns has a size advantage, so that might be more important to you depending on how many people in your family. I don't see myself choosing the bayliner given those three unless price was out of line on the other 2.

Last thing, you didn't mention the engines... I'm guessing that bayliner has the 4 cylinder Mercruiser 3.0l? Not a bad engine, just not enough power for the boat. I personally would never buy an I/O with a 4 cylinder, you will spend every day wondering why you didn't find something with a bigger engine. The other two most likely have v8's.

 

[southkogs]

Welcome aboard Venom:

Four factors to consider: 1) Condition, 2) Condition, 3) Price in relation to condition and 4) Condition.

Bayliner is the lower end brand of all of 'em, but I've just recently gotten a 195 Capri Classic and it's not a bad boat at all. Four Winns and Crownline both have good reputations, Crownline being the higher end of the two. Which one do you like the most? Which one is in best shape? Which one suits your budget? Which one suits your towing, storage, fuel and family needs the best?

... and which one is in the best condition?

 

[Chris1956]

The quality of the ride depends on a mix of the factors: Deadrise, weight and vee hull style.

The best ride will be a heavy weight boat with a lot of deadrise and a vee hull that flattens near the stern.

If you have two boats of the same weight and vee hull style, the one with the most deadrise will usually ride better.

Two boats of the same vee hull style and deadrise, the heavier boat will usually ride better.

Greater deadrise will require more power to perform as well as a flatter bottom, in calm water.

 

[gm280]

Dead rise is important. BUT, if you have only the dead rise at the transoms with no further info about how that dead rise changes towards the bow, it is almost meaningless. So unless you can get the dead rise info on each hull from transom, middle hull, forward hull and bow as well, then dead rise could simply be no info at all. JMHO!

 

[tpenfield]

In addition to what has been said so far, I would add:

the challenge is in getting a boat that does the types of things that you want to do. If you are going from point A to point B and want a smooth ride through choppy waters, then yes lots of deadrise. 22-24 degrees.

If you want to do water sports, then you will generally want less deadrise (16-20 degrees) so that the boat can come up on plane easily. (Deep Vee hulls take a while to come up on plane and generally need more HP to move them along)

Most folks need a boat to do a few things reasonable well, so you end up somewhere in the middle of the extremes. As mentioned weight is a factor, but more so on the extremes, either very light or very heavy)

The Crownline is probably the best brand (IMO), but the Bayliner being that much newer is something to consider. Another thing to consider is the size of the boat. the 22' FW will seem massive as compared to the 19' Bayliner, even though it is 3 feet difference. Most folks realize that the boats are not as big as they were thinking once they get them in the water and put a bunch of people aboard.

Looking forward to updates on your search :thumb:

 

[Venoms]

Wow!

First of all, thank you guys for all this wonderful information and feedback! I didn't expect such great responses! This is super helpful!

Regarding condition, I saw the Bayliner and it's in amazing condition and has been taken great care of. Kept in the garage all the time. About 175 hours on it. So clearly the best condition of the three.

The Four Winns looks a bit worn in some areas and has 320 hours on it, but not bad for being almost 20 years old. It also has a nice sound system, extra battery and Led lighting that make it more attractive.

And yes both the Crownline and the Four Winns have the larger engines, while the Bayliner jas the 3.0 Mercruiser.

The Crownline really stands out to me, and looks like a boat we really want. It only has 75 hours on it, which seems shocking, they said it was the original engine. It has sofa seating all around the cockpit area with the exception of a single chair for the captain. We prefer this over the dual chairs since we will be lounging most of the time.

As far as use, this will be a family boat for us. And we would like to bring family/friend guests onboard from time to time. Little to no water sports planned, we will primary be using it to cruise around lake tahoe and relax on the water while enjoying the sun and view. So for us having a smooth ride and comfortable seating is first and foremost. Additionally we'd like to fit it in our two car garage (if possible, but not a deal breaker).

Im not sure about the angle to the transform on the Crownline, and it's been a bit hit or miss when trying to track down some of these specs, but I'll keep looking.

So generally speaking, if a boat was 3500lbs but had a 16 degree deadrise, would it ride smoother than a 2000lb boat with a 20 degree deadrise? This is a big concern for us since Lake Tahoe can get pretty choppy.

Thanks again for all your help!!!

 

[gm280]

So generally speaking, if a boat was 3500lbs but had a 16 degree deadrise, would it ride smoother than a 2000lb boat with a 20 degree deadrise? This is a big concern for us since Lake Tahoe can get pretty choppy.

Venoms, Honestly, I don't think there is any person on these forums that could accurately answer your question. And the reason is there are so many other issue involved when it come to boat handling then just weight and dead rise. The condition of the rest of the hull, the type engine, weight distribution, and the list can go on and on. So the only way to reliably figure that out is to test drive them both. JMHO!

 

[tpenfield]

Yes, I agree with gm280, no empirical way to tell one boat from another based on the specs alone. To me, 16 degrees of deadrise is wicked flat and I would expect it to be bouncy even with great weight. . . Water does not compress hardly at all you know.

 

[drrpm]

The longer, heavier boats will ride better but there are a variety of factors involved and I doubt that anyone can give an x number of degree change in dead rise effects the ride as much as y pounds does. You mention taking family out and no water sports but that might change if children come into the picture. Another consideration is that the longer boats have a wider beam which greatly increases the interior room. Once trailerable boats are longer than 20 feet they usually have an 8'6" beam but the shorter ones are narrower and you can really feel the difference with more than a couple people on board.

 

[Venoms]

Yeah, tough to estimate... I'm just trying to figure out if one was more important for a smooth ride, between weight and deadrise?

Here's a couple images of the boat (not sure if this helps at all):

 

[Venoms]

The longer, heavier boats will ride better but there are a variety of factors involved and I doubt that anyone can give an x number of degree change in dead rise effects the ride as much as y pounds does. You mention taking family out and no water sports but that might change if children come into the picture. Another consideration is that the longer boats have a wider beam which greatly increases the interior room. Once trailerable boats are longer than 20 feet they usually have an 8'6" beam but the shorter ones are narrower and you can really feel the difference with more than a couple people on board.

Wow... Ok that's a VERY important factor for us then! So it sounds like I will want 20+ feet minimum then with around 8"6' beam.

That's really helpful too!

 

[tpenfield]

FWIW - I had similar 'choppy water' concerns when I got my first power boat. I ended up getting a 24 footer with 24 degrees of deadrise. No regrets either.

 

[brian4321]

I am by no means an expert in hull design, I'm only speaking from personal experience... I have a 2000 20.5 foot bayliner and my buddy has a 1998 22 foot crownline...although I love my boat and would buy another later model bayliner if it was in great condition, my buddy's boat rides better hands down...simply because its a little bigger and probably quite a bit heavier... If your main concern is a smooth ride I would suggest the crownline... Hope this helps!

 

[mr 88]

I would lean towards the 4 Winns it wont fit in your garage but you will enjoy the extra space and the ride will be the best of the three. Don't worry about the deadrise,it has enough, the V in the bow of the hull carrys through to the stern, that does 90% of the wave breaking. I have a 28' Rampage,11 foot beam with 11 degrees of deadrise , this is a ocean going fishing machine. The deep V in the bow does the work and the 11 degree deadrise in the stern allows for trolling/sitting with minimal rocking that you will get with a 24 degree boat. If its that rough out,no matter what the deadrise it will pound you unless you back off the throttle... I also have a 22' Regal 8 '6 beam and that ride is 100% better than a 19 or 20' boat. Length and weight are everything in the boating world.I owned a mid 80's 16' 4 winns years ago and it was built very well, for a smaller boat it handled the waves nicely.

 

[thumpar]

I have a Crownline 202BR. They have a low deadrise compared to some. As long as you are lake boating they handle fine. Choppy water is not a problem. One time I had to go through 6' swells and 60mph winds, that was not fun but that is not common here. Crownlines are well made and have the extra features.

 

[Venoms]

I would lean towards the 4 Winns it wont fit in your garage but you will enjoy the extra space and the ride will be the best of the three. Don't worry about the deadrise,it has enough, the V in the bow of the hull carrys through to the stern, that does 90% of the wave breaking. I have a 28' Rampage,11 foot beam with 11 degrees of deadrise , this is a ocean going fishing machine. The deep V in the bow does the work and the 11 degree deadrise in the stern allows for trolling/sitting with minimal rocking that you will get with a 24 degree boat. If its that rough out,no matter what the deadrise it will pound you unless you back off the throttle... I also have a 22' Regal 8 '6 beam and that ride is 100% better than a 19 or 20' boat. Length and weight are everything in the boating world.I owned a mid 80's 16' 4 winns years ago and it was built very well, for a smaller boat it handled the waves nicely.

That's great info! Thanks for the tip! We came to the same conclusion after seeing all three boats over this past weekend. The Crownline was nice, but the Four Winns was in better condition and much taller and larger overall.

That being said, my family fell in love with the Pontoon style boats we saw on the showroom floor. They do actually seem perfect for the type of boating experience we are looking for!

So my question would be, how would the ride on choppy waters be on a Pontoon style compared to the Deep Vee of let's say the Four Winns? I assume the same weight and length variables will apply, but just wondering generally how much of a difference will it be in that type of water conditions?

Since this starts to drift a bit from the original topic, I opened up a new thread here: http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...s/pontoons/10104303-pontoon-or-not-to-pontoon

 

[Chris1956]

Pontoon boats really take a beating, if the water is rough. On Lake Tahoe, your boating days would be severely limited, as it has chop on it, a lot of days.

A Deckboat has a similar layout, but has a deep vee hull. That would be a far better choice, IMHO.

 

[southkogs]

Percy Priest here in Nashville is smaller than Tahoe, but still a pretty large impound with a lot of traffic on it. We've got anything from kayaks to houseboats and trawlers on the lake, and in some areas it does get pretty choppy. My last boat was a 17' tri-hull, and honestly in most places on the lake it wasn't too bad. In the higher traffic areas you could take a beating (caught air in it once), but where we went most of the time it was fine. Same thing would have been true with a pontoon.

If you can, go rent a pontoon on Tahoe and take it out for a half day. See what it feels like around the lake.

 

[Venoms]

That's a great idea... A test drive might help us make the best decision!