hwsiii---Need proping advice

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Yep its hooked up right.

Looking at a pdf for teleflex for their tachs I see a note on the last page. It states

Johnson/Evinrude 88-112 SPL "Special" models may require the addition of a 2000 ohm resistor or a BRP voltage regulator.

Is this something that could be causing a problem? There is nothing else stated about this as to how or why, just what I wrote is all that is on the last page along with some notes for mercury and some other OE tachs.
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

I would like to revisit this thread as I am going to have to probably buy a prop this year for sure. My aluminum is getting pretty nicked up so I think it would be wise to go to a SS. I have been looking around and there are some good deals on some used ones that people want to get rid of, but I need to know what type and size. I never did check my rpms with a different tach so not sure if its the fact that the tach is a little off, or if the info is correct and the above info of over propped is a fact.
I was cruising other sources and asking questions and it seems I am better off with my set-up the way it is than most boats out there. So, being that the way it is....if I wanted to keep things the same, or maybe gain a little more bottom end, what would I have to go to in a SS to match what I now have in an aluminum.
 

Tail_Gunner

Admiral
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
6,237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

If all of the info you have given in this thread is correct the follow WH's advice. Hes one of the best...have fun
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

I agree these guys know their stuff. I guess if I were to take the time to run my boat with another tach hooked up I need to know the best way to do so. I don't want to invest in another tach if I don't have to. I have a good multimeter, can I run jumper wires to that and check the rpm?
 

craze1cars

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,822
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Cheapest way, IMO, to test a tach is to obtain a laser tach. Cheapos on Ebay for $15 to $20 shipped to your door. Put a small piece of reflective tape on the flywheel and point the tach at the spinning part, get an instant read.

Obviously this will only be safe to test while not running on the water...but at least can get you a good idea if your tach is accurate by simply running RPMS up to a reasonable speed while on muffs in the driveway.

Far be it for me to take something away from Walleyhead. But there is one part of his analysis which I may disagree with. "FACT - Known 17 Pitch prop." How was this "fact" nailed down?

Your boat is 16 years old, the prop is nicked up, you are not the original owner of boat or prop, and the lower unit has hit something and had some repairs done. So I find it entirely possible...frankly LIKELY...that your prop is NOT a "true" 17 pitch for many reasons: It could have actually been repitched (by a prop shop...or maybe by a rock laying at the bottom of a lake?), and it is entirely possible that it was NOT repitched, but was never accurately labeled to exacting standards when it was new.

I know on my boat I have absolute fact GPS speeds, fact outdrive ratio, fact tach reading (tested with THREE tachs, including one calibrated shop tach) and a brand new stainless prop that I purchased myself. When I run slip calculators for my setup, I get exactly 0% slip. Not possible, but simply the way the math works. If I add one inch of pitch for a "cupped" prop (did you do this? Is your prop cupped? do you know how much? How do I or anyone else know whether you or I should add 0.5", 0.8", 1.2", or 1.4" for the SPECIFIC AMOUNT of cupping my particular prop has?) and I get 6%. And this figure is STILL not truly possible for an I/O. To get a realistic slip figure on any prop calculator I have to actually call my 21 pitch prop a 23 pitch prop. And then the calculator suddenly works with a realistic number. But it's a number based on an exaggerated change of a mathematical constant...in other words...IT IS A GUESS. But I apply that guess in order to compare theoretical RPM and speed figures to other pitch props of the same brand and same style ONLY...but not if I plan to switch prop brands or styles.

My only possible conclusion given my known facts? My 21 Pitch brand new Solas prop is not an ACTUAL 21 pitch prop, despite what Solas says it is, and despite the fact that I actually had to exchange it thinking they made a labeling error. 2nd prop, same results. I beleive many manufacturers do not accuarely rate the pitch on their props...even when brand new.

So it's very important to not put too much stock in a prop calculator. It's only a guidline tool.

Another questionmark: Your first post says "lower unit was replaced by previous owner." And after that replacement you allude to the owner starting to do some prop experimentation. Now I'm not an Evinrude guy and I don't know interchangability of parts, but that throws up a red flag to me with respect to using prop calculators. Is there any chance this lower unit replacement could have resulted in a gear ratio change? Which send the previous owner on a blind prop search? That's yet another possible variable to consider when one obtains strange numbers out of a prop calculator...

But none of this changes the following: I agree 100% that you DO need to make sure your tach is accurate, that is absolutely CRITICAL for accurate prop tuning. So you're on the right path by wanting to check this first before wasting money on a prop that might take you in the wrong direction with your RPMS. I'm not an Evinrude guy at all, but I don't know of any other way to do this than to obtain another tach that is known to be accurate and hook it up...or as I mentioned try a laser tach or smilar shop/test tach that you can borrow. It might even be worth paying a marina to test it for you if they have a good calibrated test tach...they might just charge you an hour labor or less and then you would have a good answer.

Just bear in mind that you might actually find your tach to be accurate, and your current prop may NOT be a true 17 pitch prop...despite labeling and part number. And also your gear ratio may possibly not be 2:1 anymore? I'll let the Evinrude guys confirm or deny that possibility for me...
 

steelespike

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 26, 2002
Messages
19,069
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

I agree prop calculators are only as accurate as their input I feel the boat is nearly impossible to have accurate unless there is a bank of accurate models in a data base.
If you do a lazer tach on muffs don't exceed about 1500/2000 rpm as you could risk a runaway.
I wonder if a splash of white paint would work instead of reflective tape?
 

craze1cars

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,822
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

If you do a lazer tach on muffs don't exceed about 1500/2000 rpm as you could risk a runaway.
I wonder if a splash of white paint would work instead of reflective tape?

Probably yes on white paint. I agree with your limited RPM suggestion on muffs.

Alternate idea...only if you know of a place with a ramp that is full concrete and permits power loading so you don't damage the ramp (many forbid this practice...it does damage many ramps):

Tightly strap boat to your trailer, parking brake set on tow vehicle, engage motor in gear, second person at the helm to hold steering straight and to cut back to neutral in a hurry if the trailer starts to walk sideways...

Now you can run your RPMS up in gear about as high as motor is capable, without fearing damage to your motor, and now you can safely use the laser tach for higher RPM tach check.

Or find a marina that will let you borrow their dunk tank to do the same.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Please don't run the engine up with it on the trailer.....this can damage the transom badly...and it can suck a rock from 6-8ft away and damage a prop like you won't believe.
Proselect, send me a PM when you get time.....
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Walleyehed, I sent you a PM.

Craze, You have a good point about the gear ratio being different due to replacement. I took my lower unit off today to change the impeller. I spun the driveshaft to check the ratio and it is deffinately 2:1. The prop was brand new when I bought the rig, just a few small nicks on it. It is stamped with the part number and size which was identified above as a stock style BRP prop. I am almost possitive its never been tweaked.
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Well searching other avenues I still can't come up with jack squat. First thing is first I guess and I am going to check out and verify my rpms with another soarce tach to see if its on or off. I kind of hope its off, cuz that will make my changing props easier. I was told to go to a four blade stainless 15 pitch prop and that would likely solve my rpm and porpoising problems. The only down fall is I would sacrifice 4-6 mph on my top end. I feel that is kind of slow for my boat and I hope I don't have to go down that road to make things better.
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Well I have my meter set up with an inductive pickup to check my tach for accuracy. Now I just have to wait for this latest batch of snow to melt off again and temps to rise before getting back out on the water. WI sucks sometimes!
 

Proselect

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
237
Re: hwsiii---Need proping advice

Well heres and update. I got ahold of a 17 pitch Stiletto Advantage one for dirt cheap and its like brand new. I tried it out last night. The good: Less porpoising than before, but if I hit the right wake and back off the throttle it will start up and its hard to get out without slowing way down off plane. I can cruise on plane at lower speeds than before. My mid range pull is a lot harder. I gained 1mph. I was able to take off the whale tail.
The bad: Porpoising is not totally gone. My hole shot seems about the same as it was before. My rpms at wot throttle trimmed all the way up is only 5000 and that was full fishing gear and my 6 yo son only. Now I have to save up some more dough and try something else out or hit up a prop shop and try out props. I don't get how my rpms dropped even lower than before.
I have yet to get out with another adult for testing of rpm accuracy and to take a pic of my av plate at wot. I was able to trim all the way up with no problem so maybe I will try moving the motor up the last hole and see if it makes a difference.
If I could get someone to come
 
Top