hydraulic actuator

[frantically relaxing]

They are not $1000...http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brak.../T4813100.html

I didn't say the actuators were a grand, I said it would cost me a grand more to go with disc brakes instead of drums...
Yes, the actuator is only $615, but I'd also have to add 3 pairs of disc brake kits at $300 a pop...
https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Brakes/Kodiak/K2HR526D.html
Now we're at $1515, which is $1205 more than the $288 I spent for 6 drum kits and the $22 or so for the wiring.

I'd LOVE that setup, but not for 6x the money!

 

[bruceb58]

I didn't say the actuators were a grand, I said it would cost me a grand more to go with disc brakes instead of drums...
Yes, the actuator is only $615, but I'd also have to add 3 pairs of disc brake kits at $300 a pop...

I see what you are saying. Of course I did exactly that except mine was one less axle. After doing it, I would still never do anything different. Not having drum brakes is worth every penny in my opinion. Never had trailer brakes that worked as well as these.

 

[Blind Date]

The electric would be ok except I like the ability to hook it up to any of my current vehicles, none of which have a controller.

That's a really good point. Another downside to electric brakes is you have another battery to maintain for the break away kit. I converted the trailer under my SeaRay like FR did from surge to electric drum after renting a tow behind RV with electric drum brakes. I was sold. The simplicity and control can't be beat. Now the boat literally brakes the truck. No messy hydraulic fluid to ever deal with & no more annoying clunk every time you take off from a stop. I've got surge disc on the trailer under my Carlson. No comparison. The electric drums are heads and tails better.

 

[bruceb58]

I've got surge disc on the trailer under my Carlson. No comparison. The electric drums are heads and tails better.

Out of curiosity, how much does the Carlson weigh?

 

[dingbat]

No messy hydraulic fluid to ever deal with & no more annoying clunk every time you take off from a stop. I've got surge disc on the trailer under my Carlson. No comparison. The electric drums are heads and tails better.

You say that now....I have 4 wheel disc on the boat trailer and 4 wheel electric on the horse trailer. Both trailers are @ #6000 when loaded.

I spent all last weekend replacing the wiring (mice) and all four brakes assemblies on the horse trailer. Between adjusting brake pads, replacing break away batteries and repairing damage to the wiring I'm about done with electric brakes.

Besides that, I'm not overly impressed with the braking efficiency. The boat trailer has a magnitude better stopping power and a lot less long term maintenance.

I don't have mountains to contend with on a regular basis so "control" really isn't concern. Lots of high speed urban driving so the primary concern is stopping distance

BTW: if you coupler is clunking at take off your brakes need bled.

 

[Blind Date]

Out of curiosity, how much does the Carlson weigh?

Never scaled it but I suspect around 2700 lbs on the trailer w/gas & gear.

BTW: if you coupler is clunking at take off your brakes need bled.

A coupler works like a brake pedal in that by design it moves when you apply the brakes. They all clunk which is why they sell receivers with rubber cushions. Luckily with electric brakes I'll never have to worry about bleeding trailer brakes and all the mess that goes along with it ever again. My drums are Dexter "Never Adjust" so the only maintenance with my system is the battery. I'll take that over bleeding brakes any day of the week.

 

[bruceb58]

I'll never have to worry about bleeding trailer brakes and all the mess that goes along with it ever again.

I never get a mess but of course I use a Motive pressure brake bleeder. I change the brake fluid in all of my cars and trailer every two to three years so its not that big a deal. I wish everything I worked on was as easy.

 

[dingbat]

A coupler works like a brake pedal in that by design it moves when you apply the brakes. They all clunk which is why they sell receivers with rubber cushions.

The coupler moves, but should never hit the end of the stroke (the clunk) because of the damping effect of the hydraulic actuator. If it does clunk, mine doesn't, you have air in the lines .I use the clunk as my signal that the brakes need bleed again

This is something completely different than the clunk from a loose fitting receiver that would be a problem no matter what configuration you choose.

 

[thumpar]

Mine did clunk when I stopped. I found the brakes non function. I only had it a little while and the next spring I replaced everything. There is still a noise at take off but it is the attwood actuator that kind of folds in and not straight back.

 

[Horigan]

A coupler works like a brake pedal in that by design it moves when you apply the brakes. They all clunk which is why they sell receivers with rubber cushions. Luckily with electric brakes I'll never have to worry about bleeding trailer brakes and all the mess that goes along with it ever again. My drums are Dexter "Never Adjust" so the only maintenance with my system is the battery. I'll take that over bleeding brakes any day of the week.

I found that when I greased the four rollers in the actuator and adjusted the drum brakes the clunking was greatly reduced on my trailer.

 

[Blind Date]

Never got a clunk when I braked. It's after I had stopped at a light/sign that as the truck pulls away you get that jerk as the coupler slides back out and reaches the end of its travel. With close to 4 tons back there it was very annoying. Nothing grease or anything else would have fixed. It's what you get with surge brakes. Clunk was probably not the best word to use.

 

[wrvond]

<snip> Now the boat literally brakes the truck. <snip>

​Your controller is set incorrectly. Ideally the trailer should not push or pull on the tow vehicle when braking.

 

[bruceb58]

​Your controller is set incorrectly. Ideally the trailer should not push or pull on the tow vehicle when braking.

Agreed...electric brakes are set correctly when you can't tell if the trailer is there. It should actually feel like surge brakes feel! LOL

 

[Blind Date]

Your controller is set incorrectly. Ideally the trailer should not push or pull on the tow vehicle when braking.

I'm sure you realize I can adjust how much braking power I have on the fly by simply turning a dial my proportional brake controller. Adjust it all the time while towing to compensate for changing conditions/parameters. The beauty of electric brakes. Try doing that with surge!

 

[frantically relaxing]

speaking of greasing the rollers (or not) leads me to another reason I won't do surge brakes...

This is what happens to the rollers when they don't...
(flanking a new one)

From the Sea Ray trailer many years ago...

 

[bruceb58]

I'm sure you realize I can adjust how much braking power I have on the fly by simply turning a dial my proportional brake controller. Adjust it all the time while towing to compensate for changing conditions/parameters.

Yes, you change the gain based on load. You never want the trailer having braking where it pulls on the vehicle.

On my electric/hydraulic, I adjust it based on how much weight I am pulling since it's basically the same as electric brakes...but of course WAY better!

 

[Blind Date]

On my electric/hydraulic, I adjust it based on how much weight I am pulling since it's basically the same as electric brakes...but of course WAY better!

I'll stick with what I got. If I was unhappy with the braking performance of the trailer under my SeaRay I'd replace it. That's how I roll!

 

[frantically relaxing]

Just to stir the pot a little more--

There's still one tiny flaw (my opinion) with all electric brake setups-- The controllers. Back in 1964 when my dad started pulling a19' Aljo trailer- with electric brakes- with our '61 Fairlane 500, he had a brake controller installed. I wish I still had it- Don't know the brand. It was basically a black box with a 3" or so long joystick with a black knob sticking out the front. To adjust the proportional voltage to the brakes you just turned the knob, in for more braking, out for less.. But unlike the funky inertia-based brake controllers these days, this thing was hydraulically connected to the car's master cylinder. (yes, it had to be bled) The harder the car's brakes were applied, the farther to the right the joystick moved, and the brighter a small red indicator light got. Instead of the controller guessing at using pendulums or whatever else they use to determine braking voltage via negative G-force, trailer braking was based on actual tow-vehicle braking. "Proportional" doesn't get any better than that. And the stick was long enough and foolproof enough that manually applying or adding more trailer braking was simple and non-eventful.

A few years later the old man picked up a '66 Suburban, and the controller got moved to it. I towed the Aljo about 3 times with that suburban in the '70's. Literally could not tell the trailer was there when stopping. You could hear the magnets clack was about it...Totally different than trying to dial in the electrics on the 36' fifth wheel we had 10 years ago. I never did find a sweet spot...

So I have to wonder, why are there no hydraulic operated controllers these days? Nobody want's to mess with teeing off the a master cylinder I guess.

Another system I saw many years ago was a full-hydraulic brakes setup between an Airstream and the TV. There was a flexible hydraulic line on the trailer that connected to a mating connection on the TV, much like an air hose. Only got a quick glance at it and a very brief explanation from the owner, but I remember it was all hydraulic/mechanical, nothing electric. Basically, the trailer shared full hydraulic braking with the TV. Never seen one like it since, have no idea how it worked...

 

[wrvond]

With today's computer controlled ABS brakes, anti sway, and traction control systems, I very much doubt hydraulic brakes that are tapped into the master cylinders would work very well. Especially when the computer wants to apply brakes to each individual wheel.

 

[thumpar]

With today's computer controlled ABS brakes, anti sway, and traction control systems, I very much doubt hydraulic brakes that are tapped into the master cylinders would work very well. Especially when the computer wants to apply brakes to each individual wheel.

The braking systems don't tap in to the vehicles master cylinder with either system.