Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

[LonLB]

Normal hydraulic systems are a closed system right? When you pump fluid in to turn one way, fluid from the cylinder is forced back to the helm through the other line.....

Why couldn't the lines on the cylinder simply be looped, and used on a tiller for hydraulic steering.

Like in this picture.

Mechanical leverage from turning the motor one to the right would push fluid back through the fitting that would normally turn the engine left, through the looped line and into the fitting that supplies the fluid for turning right.


I've got to be missing something here.



EDIT-I read, in searching that the helm pump displaces the same amount of fluid that the cylinder on the engine does.....To me this would help to confirm that for a tiller system, looping the lines like that would work. The fluid displaced when turning one way would displace the fluid the same amount on the other side.

 

[Fed]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

What are you trying to achieve?

 

[LonLB]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

Easier steering of a larger tiller outboard.

 

[mla2ofus]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

If I understand what you're saying, you can't do that because the displacement of each side of the cyl isn't equal due to the displacement of the cyl rod.
Mike

 

[LonLB]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

What are you trying to achieve?

Do have any input to the specific comments and questions in my original post?

 

[Fed]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

Hydraulic steering is nothing more than a way to transmit movement from the steering wheel to movement at the tiller and as you already have your hand on the tiller it does nothing in your case.
It would in fact make your outboard more difficult to turn because as well as turning your outboard you also have to force fluid from one side of the ram to the other.
You may get a dampening effect (I can see what appears to be an adjustable valve in the line) but that could raise safety questions by restricting the speed you could change course in an emergency.
If you are having problems turning it then you should consider things like trim tab setting, motor trim position and motor height.
Hope this helps.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

What you are missing is that you never get something for nothing. To gain from a hydraulic system you need to input some type of power--like a power steering pump on an automobile. Otherwise you are just using your muscle power to shift fluid back and forth within the cylinder. As noted above, causing increased force needed to turn the engine.

Now, if you were using a helm, and if you wanted to decrease the force necessary on the wheel, you would use a pump with less volume per turn than the cylinder, thus increasing mechanical advantage. That is, requiring more turns of the wheel at less force to turn the engine the same amount of degrees.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

use a ram at steering wheel with more square inches than the ram at engine and you will create a hydraulic pulley system. The larger the piston at steering wheel is then the more leverage you will have on the engine. However, as your leverage increases then so does the amount of turning required.

 

[LonLB]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

The other option I thought of, is adapting a Mercruiser I/O power steering ram.

Then, mount a compact power steering pump on the engine, belt driven, with a pulley on the flywheel.

Run the hoses to the ram, and the mechanical steering is moving the tiller arm, vs the steering cable in a normal mercruiser setup.



I like to tinker. Can you tell???

 

[RRitt]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

by the time this is all done ... why not just buy a power steering system off some old buick? It should meet your quota for tinkernomics and require fewer oddball parts.

 

[LonLB]

Re: Hydraulic cylinder use questions. TILLER ENGINES

by the time this is all done ... why not just buy a power steering system off some old buick? It should meet your quota for tinkernomics and require fewer oddball parts.

Actually the power steering pump would be an automotive steering pump. Just the same as it would be on a Mercruiser engine.

Something more compact though. build some brackets, and bolt it on, along with a pulley on the flywheel. Have a local hydraulic shop build the hoses, and you would have a tiller power steering setup.


In the end, the cost of converting to tiller, then addressing the torque of a large tiller engine, plus the fact the boat will be used with the entire family at times, is making me lean towards keeping the console/helm, and remote controls.