Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Thanks, to everyone that helped out on the diode problem!! Someone raised the question about what type of lower unit lube I was using. The diode fixed a great deal of the kick in my Johnson, however I was wondering if a change in lube could even futher my progress. The motor is a 1972 Johnson 50hp, with Hydro-Electric Shifting. I'm currently using Lubrimatic High Viscosity 80w/90 lower unit gear lube. Any suggestions, or am I fine with what I using? All the manual suggests is a Type C ? As always, thanks for your imput. Ross
 

Fouled Plug

Ensign
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
935
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

That lower needs the Type C, and only Type C. Don't run it with anything else, or it will fail. $$$$$$ :eek: $$$$$$
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Type C is now called Premium Blend and is about the viscosity of ATF. 90W oil can build up too much pressure in cold water and make the motor shift into reverse, even though the shift lever is in neutral, possibly injuring someone.
 

jimtodd72

Seaman
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
51
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

I've been using CRC Hypoid 90 marine gear oil for years in a hydroelectric shift outboard with no problems at all. Someone please tell me if I'm doing the wrong thing although I've experienced no problems thus far.<br /><br />Jim
 

Fouled Plug

Ensign
Joined
Jun 29, 2001
Messages
935
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Heavier weight oil can cause problems with the hydraulic pump in these units. That's why the manual specifies a certain lube. I think it's a straight 80W, but I'm not sure. Maybe you can get away with what you've been running. I was always told Type C, no substitutes. Perhaps modern lubes work where the old ones didn't. Who is the resident electric shift expert? :confused: I'd like to hear the scoop on this.
 

almost retired again

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2002
Messages
438
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

I,ve always been told to use only OMC,s premium blend gear oil in electric shift gear cases. It,s a thinner gear lube and from what I,ve been told it also has a higher resistive value similar to transformer oil,but I really don,t know for sure. However the unit that is in question is probly a hydro-electric it should use the same gear oil tho.
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Thanks guys,<br /><br />I hope I haven't already messed up my lower unit. It looks like there a fluid change in my near future. Thanks, Ross :(
 

petryshyn

Commander
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Hello:<br />Called rep for Esso. Type "c" is lower viscosity period. (what do they know)LOL
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Yea what do they know! LOL<br /><br />Schematic, do you think I've screwed anything up by running the none C-type fluid? I've probably taken the boat out twice since I changed the lower unit fluid. I've got to go and thank the knowledgeable "pro's" at boater's world for their excellent suggestion of the wrong fluid for my boat! Oh well, hopefully I haven't damaged my poor engine. Thanks, Ross
 

petryshyn

Commander
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Ross<br />I think you'll be fine......just get the right oil in her :)
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Thanks, Schematic<br /><br />Were going to put her out on the water today and see how all of the fix's work out. Thanks, for all of your help! Ross :D
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

I asked a Johnson certified outboard mechanic about this, curious as I am because I have two outboards with electric gearcaases, one Hydro Electric, and the other a Selectric..<br /><br />Anyway, his answer was that apart from being thinner, it also was less corrosive to electrical insulators.. meaning that using ordinary oil can possibly result in shorts caused by the wiring insulation getting brittle from detergents in ordinary oil and breaking off...<br /><br />So there is your answer..<br /><br />On another note, my Hydro Electric 100ESL72 100HP outboard doesn't seem to want to go into either N or R.. I tested the wiring with a multimeter, and no power in F, one in N and both in R. so the wiring is fine..<br />I replaced the wiring down the leg with heavy duty high temp double insulated cable, (rated to 250degree's C) and they draw current when connected to +"ve" so they are not broken anywhere, but still I have no N or R. I have replaced the oil in the gearcasae with the proper OMC exectric gearcase oil to no effect.. <br /><br />I am told that it used to work fine, but it sat in a shed for 5 years without use, so it may just be blocked up a bit.. anyone got any tips for getting this working without resorting to stripping it.?<br /><br />Also, I have noticed that when I put the water muffs on and hook up the hose, it takes ages to get the water flowing through, I know the thermostat would be part of the cause, and once it is flowing, the tmp seems fine, but has anyone else noticed how hard it is to initially get the water through when starting out of water??? (I have just replaced the impeller as well, so its not that.<br /><br />Any tips would be great.<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank<br /><br /> :) :)
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Franki,<br /><br />First off, welcome to the "boards." I was wondering if you have checked the gearcase solenoids? If those are O.K. have you checked the shift-selector switch. And ofcourse have you checked the blocking diode? I'm pretty new to this myself, but maybe you want to check these out. I have some pretty vauge diagrams if you need them. Good Luck, let us know how it's going. Ross
 

jimtodd72

Seaman
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
51
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Franki: Sounds like you may need to get inside that lower unit to make sure the hydraulic pump and shift solenoids are functioning properly. Even with new gear oil, everything inside there may be sticky from so many years of inactivity. A good cleaning inside and then fresh lube got mine going after experiencing the same problem. Get a good repair manual and do this carefully and you'll learn alot about how this system works and be amazed at how much better you can troubleshoot it. As far as the cooling goes, most of the heated water is sent out through the exhaust housing and through the prop. hub so if your looking for water to stream out of the holes up top, you can be a little misled by when the thermostat opens up.<br /><br />Jim
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Hi Guys, <br />Thanks for the fast reply... I am definately glad I joined now.. :)<br /><br />Any help, diagrams, tips from those who have tried this or know someone who has are all very welcome.<br /><br />I bought this outboard a while ago, and proceeded to fix it up.. I replaced the powerpack ($400 AUD)<br />Painted the leg properly, ($100 in etch primer and Acrylic lacquer, and untold hours sanding.)<br />replaced the fuel lines, the impeller and anything else I could find that looked like it might need fixing/replacing. so this gearbox thing is rather upsetting as I thougth I was ready to go.<br /><br />So I have to pull the leg off again?<br />I don't have a service manual yet, (they wanted $100 AUD (about $50 USD) to ship it over here to me. which I can't afford this month considering how much I have already spent on the motor this month already.<br /><br />If you have any diagrams or notes about doing it, I'd really love to get a copy. can you email them to me? (frankieh@vianet.net.au) or are they on hard copy??<br /><br />I have taken legs apart before, my old evenrude selectric has been stripped by me a couple of times, I swapped the forward and reverse electric clutches in that around because forward let go under high load, and I did all that without a service manual or a clue.. so I can probably do this too, but I like this motor more, so I'd like to be sure.<br />(the only problem with the old Selectric was that when I dropped the leg off, 500 needle rollers fell out the bottom.. which was a nightmare to put back in. but the Johnson has no needle rollers around the drive shaft, so no probs there.<br /><br />Anyway, if anyone has any diagrams, or info that I can have a look at, I'd be very relieved and appreciative.<br /><br />One old bush trick I was thinking of trying was to drain the leg out, fill it with diesel and run it for ten minutes, the diesel detergents clean off the gummed up oil. anyone know if thats a profoundly bad idea?<br /><br />I started the machine today, with the wires disconnected, and hooked possitive directly to the two wires via a jumper lead to the battery, (hoping to see it jump in to reverse.) alas, no such luck, the solenoids were drawing current, but nothing at all happened. (so its not the switch gear, which I had already tested with a multimeter anyway.) as I understand it, both wires no voltage in Forward, one 12V in Neutral, and both 12V in Reverse, the switch is reflecting this perfectly.<br /><br />One last thing, where is the Diode? is there an easy way to test it, (ie with a multimeter)<br /><br />Sorry for the long abstract post, I was just so surprised to find people on the net who understand what I am talking about.<br /><br />Many thanks<br /><br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Franki,<br /><br />Send me your e-mail address and I'll send you the schematics I have. I can't seem to be able to attach them to this response.
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

hmm, I thought I had posted my email address..<br /><br />oh well, I'm probably going senile..<br />here it is: frankieh@vianet.net.au<br /><br />Thanks heaps for this, I was hoping to get away with not spliting the foot, but if I have to, having a schematic of sorts would be so helpful.<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Frank
 

tautog27

Seaman
Joined
Dec 10, 2001
Messages
62
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Actually Franki, I'm the one who is getting senile. Sorry, some diagrams on the wiring schematic and lower unit are on their way. Sorry again, I'm not much of a morning person. Ross
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

Thanks heaps..<br /><br />While I'm here, I thought I'd ask another quick question. I am in Australia, we have unleaded standard, unleaded premium and "lead free" which used to be super, but they took the lead out and replaced it with chemicals..<br /><br />Don't suppose you know which I should be feeding this thing? it runs on standard unleaded, but its hard to start..<br /><br />I was thinking unleaded premium was the right choice?<br /><br />any thoughts?<br /><br />many thanks again..<br /><br />kindest regards<br /><br />Frank
 

jimtodd72

Seaman
Joined
Jan 30, 2002
Messages
51
Re: Hydro-Electric Lube Question?

I started using premium (93 octane)no-lead when I could no longer find leaded gasoline and then went to 87 octane when the 93 octane went to $1.85/gallon a couple of summers ago. No problems whatsoever. If hard starting when cold is a problem, keep a can of starting fluid on board. A quick spray will make starting quicker and will save you some aggravation as well as your batery.<br /><br />Jim
 
Top