Hydro locked?

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

Well I will have the starter back tomorrow and new bolts in my possesion. Is it agreed that I should put the starter back where it belongs and then try to start it, or would you guys check the plugs just to be sure....

Ken

I would put the boat in the water, lower the drive and do a pre-trip. the turn the key. KLANKKKK!

Then I would put a wrench on the crank, turn it half a turn, then turn the key VAROOOM! all day with no more klanks.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Hydro locked?

Just to be safe this time I would pull all spark plugs then crank it over, watching for any water or water vapor. If it is/was hydrolocked you could hurt the new starter or even worse bend a rod in the engine if it another cylinder tries to fire.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

Hey guys, Bad news. Put the starer back on. Took advice and pulled plugs. Number 4 cylinder had a bunch of water in it. I w-d40ed it spun it then oiled it and spun it.

What would cause this and what would the next course of action be.

Really bad timing cause the wife was having a work ski party this weekend a I was to supply the boat. Any way to repair this quickly? Would it be a head gasket?

BTW The starter works great......

Ken

 

[nola mike]

Re: Hydro locked?

When was the last time your exhaust manifold/risers were replaced?

 

[NHGuy]

Re: Hydro locked?

Nah, no quick repair for that. Is the oil getting milky? Block the water jacket off with line clamps and pressurize the cooling system to diagnose where the water is getting into things. If the motor water jacket is tight you might only need manifolds &/or elbows.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Hydro locked?

... Would it be a head gasket?

BTW The starter works great......

Ken

Probably not the head gasket. Water in the cylinders of a marine engine is almost always an exhaust manifold/riser issue. Either failed internally, or poor mating surface causing gaskets to fail.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

Thanks NH. I have the manifold and elbow off already and they don't show any visual signs of leaking. (no rust at all). There is no water in the oil, just on top of #4 piston. I was thinking head gasket.....

Ken

P.S. There have been no overheats since I have had the boat. It just started doin this in the last couple of weeks. Not been froze in the two years I've had it as its stored in a heated shop.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

So should there be some kind of test I should do before I pull the head. I was planning on doing that today.....

Ken

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Hydro locked?

That's probably it. But that's not true either. Headbolts are reuseable too.

Not if they are torqued using the "stretch" method.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Hydro locked?

Yeah, fill the water jackets of the manifold and see if they leak. Or block off the top of the manifold and put some air pressure to it, see if it leaks. Was your exhaust shutter intact on that side?

It's not going to be a head gasket. But, you could also do a compression test/leakdown test too.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Hydro locked?

Not if they are torqued using the "stretch" method.

Bolts aren't torqued with a "stretch" method. There are "Torque to Yield" bolts. But that isn't exactly a "stretch method." Also, if upon their removal, they have not stretched past their acceptible limit, they are reuseable.

Doesn't matter in this case, his one bolt was bent.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

Exhaust shutters are new.

I'm a little confused. Why would there only be water in one cylinder if its coming from the exhaust.

If the manifold was leeking, it would go from the wet side to the dry side and into the cylinder. Right?

Mine was only doing it while at rest and only the one cylinder and always the same one. Only that spark plug had evidense of rust....

Ken

Thanks for your help.

 

[nola mike]

Re: Hydro locked?

Exhaust shutters are new.

I'm a little confused. Why would there only be water in one cylinder if its coming from the exhaust.

Not familiar with your manifold specifically, but the leak would only have to affect one of the exhaust ports. A gasket leak could also preferentially affect one cylinder.

If the manifold was leeking, it would go from the wet side to the dry side and into the cylinder. Right?

From the water jacket into the exhaust path, yes.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

So if it was a gasket leak, it would be between the elbow and the manifold? I have blocked the hose out of the bottom of the manifold and filled the water jacket with water and it doesn't seem to be leaking. Would the hydro lock condition be intermitant depending on whether the exhast valve is open or not?

How would I know if this is the problem before I reassemble the entire system or is it a crap-shoot.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Hydro locked?

... Would the hydro lock condition be intermitant depending on whether the exhast valve is open or not?

How would I know if this is the problem before I reassemble the entire system or is it a crap-shoot.

Of course it depends on whether the exhaust valve is open or not.

Compression and leakdown test before you take the head off. You won't be sorry.

 

[NHGuy]

Re: Hydro locked?

You should check the water jackets on the elbows and exhaust manifolds. If they pass muster then you should very carefully inspect the exh manifold to elbow connections and the gaskets that were in there. Particularly on the side that got water in the cylinder. If you find a leak path on the gasket just replace the both side gaskets and torque it. Then run the motor, let it sit for an hour and pull all the plugs again to see if the cylinders are dry.
The way a gasket leak gets water into a combustion chamber is the water can leak down into the exhaust manifold and thence into whatever exhaust valve is open.
Pray that it's the manifold to elbow gasket, they are cheap.

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

Thanks for all the responses. I will be puting it back together tomorrow and will report back when I have some news. Lets all cross our collective fingers. My boat is the entertainment at my wife work party on Saturday.

I took the elbow and had it resurface today. Maybe that will help also. Here a picture of the surface in spring when I last had it appart.



I beleive its the on on the left.....

Ken

 

[Restoration man]

Re: Hydro locked?

As I said in an earler reply maybee you have a hole in your head behind one of the valves my engine has now had this on both the heads , the problem will only occur when the valve that the hole is behind is open , as I said befor my boat would start on the starter only just but it would start when hydro locked don't know how, any suggestions ??? But I can assure you it did ,I know water won't compress , and no It did not have bad compression , maybee when the piston hit the water it bounced the engine backwards and pushed it out the valve ??? Anyway didn,t the person who started this thread say that he put a spanner on the pully the engine would start ? If like one of you said righty said water won't compress I'm sure the only way he could have got the water out was to turn the engine in reverse ? Maybee that is how the water got out? but a spanner on the crank is going to have less effect than the starter at getting the water out of the cylinder if the engine is turned the correct direction ,I would hav thought , I did have a advantage over him in that my manifolds were new the year befor so I was confident it was not that , and the problem started late in the season so I was sure it was not a cracked bock so it could only be the heads

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

I guess a couple of you guys didn't have your fingers crossed. Put it back together fired it up and it ran beautifully. The dipstiock looked normal, a little dirty maybe but not milky. So I let it run for a while to warm the oil and began to suck the oil out and to my horror the oil in the tube was milkish. The level wasn't up.

How much water do we need to turn the oil that colour. I think it may have been that way before. The levels never went up on me. It does leak a bit of oil and I was having to add every now and then.

Should I change oil and filter and try again or start doing all the tests (compression, leekdown etc.) I was hoping to have the boat running for tomorrow.

Ken

 

[1979 Quartermasters]

Re: Hydro locked?

I just pulled the plugs and there was water in number four just like before.

Well I guess I will pull the drive so I can spin the engine for the compression test. If #4 is low then its time to rip the head off. I guess i'll have to put some oil in it to spin it for the comp test.

Well, some more advice is welcome.

Thanks....

Ken