I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

[Jdeagro]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

Elk Chaser;<br /><br />Too badyou do not have a strong opinion! Just kidding,<br /><br />Although you do not control Smart Tabs from the helm, you can adjust them to your boat.

 

[Ronald1]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

I'm with Elk Chaser on this one. The biggest improvement I've made to my boat was taking the foil OFF! The foil made my boat handle terribly. The bow steering this thing produced was almost scarey at times. As for the hole shot I'm not shure it helped. Porting my prop made a much larger difference in hole shot; and that was free! I also gained 2 mph when I removed it. Want a foil? I'll sell mine cheap!

 

[BillP]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

You guys had bad handling with the foil because it was mounted too low. The same problem will happen with tabs if trimmed down too much. The foil should ride above the surface at planing speeds. Not much you can do with IOs but outboards can be elevated to make it work right.

 

[rnsi]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

Bill-<br /><br />True, I was guilty of that on my first boat. The packaging never said (I never read it anyway) to make sure your o/b is adjusted correctly. But there's still no comparrison to the benifit of tabs. The foil *might* help with the hole shot, but the tabs will help with the entire ride. And unlike a foil, you won't be putting extra stress on the motor, and will continue to get a stabilized ride even on plane - when the foil *shoud* be out of the water and not having an effect anymore.<br /><br />On the boat I have now, there's an unbelievable difference between the foil and the tabs.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

I will probably buy some Smart Tabs in the spring of next year, not enough boating time left this season to justify (Unless someone wants to cut me a sweet deal, hint-hint), but I will say that I have no adverse effect with my foil whatsoever. Here is what the foil allowed me to do: I do not have power trim, So I was forced to always run my motor two holes out, which equaled the prop thrust roughly parallel with the hull bottom. Three holes out and I stared at the sky all day long trying to plane. At WOT, two holes out, I had too much wetted surface. I put the foil on, an Attwood Hydro-Stabilizer gullwing shaped dealy, and it has allowed me to run three holes out. At about 3800 to 6000 rpms, the majority of the foil is not in the water, I verified this by looking at it while at speed (kids, don't try that at home-it was the only way I could be sure). Yes, the lake was clear, and my boat tracks straight, something it didn't do before because I could not run my trim three holes out. I have gained speed, and economy. My holeshot is better now at three holes out with the foil that is was with no foil and two holes out. When running the foil with two holes out, I lost a bit of speed. Trimming out gave me more speed than ever.<br /><br />The reason I still want to switch to Smart tabs, despite my success with the foil, is that I feel the boat will come on plane easier, hold plane slower, and be even more economical. Even though my boat and motor is strong enough, I still don't feel lifting force should be appled vertically to the outboard. In the meantime, I am happy with the foil, it was worth the $38 I spent.

 

[BillP]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

Originally posted by LubeDude:<br />

Originally posted by snowthrower:<br /> All I hear about are these smart tabs and I don't buy it that they will perform that well. <br />

Well, have you EVER heard a post by ANYONE That didnt say they loved the Smart Tabs???<br /><br />

John G. of ShipshapeTV removed the smarttabs off his mako. He replaced them with Bennets.

 

[rnsi]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

Bill-<br /><br />Interesting... Did he say why?<br /><br />Thanks...

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

To BillP & rnsi;<br /><br />Although John G's boat was a 22 ft it was about the most unbalanced boat I have ever seen. Frankly If I would have seen this boat before the day of the filming, I would have told him to find another boat. As it turned out I showed (7:30AM) at his house (where the filming took place) along with the people who provided the new rub rails (part of the same segment which featured Smart Tabs - before the Bennett show segment) and the film crew. <br /><br />The balance problem with the boat was that John G. had installed a huge "Tuna Tower" which was from another "project". The "Tower" acted like a long leverage arm which made the boat pitch and list in all directions. Without Trim Tabs the boat was unusable in my opinion. Additionally, he moved the 225 HP 4 stroke motor back about 30" on a "bracket" (another project) making the boat even more stern heavy (as it moved the axis point further back). <br /><br />The tower moved the axis "up" and the extension moved it "back". And by the way the Mako is narrow so the pitch a roll is more pronounced.<br /><br />His only compaint to us was that the boat did not back up correctly because the Tabs where deployed. This was because the boat sat so low in the stern with the big motor and the extension. The solution was simple, the tab deployed angle was apparently too much and they needed to be adjusted up. <br /><br />I am sure that the Bennett tabs work better (especially if they are the 18" x 9" size) than Smart Tabs on this grossly unbalanced boat, but you apparently did not see the huge difference the Smart Tabs made in the first segment.<br /><br />Before Smart Tabs the bow rise was so severe when John G. was on the "Tower" that the co-pilot STANDING at the lower helm could not see beyond the bow. Smart Tabs reduced the bow rise by more that 3 FEET. However, the pitch and roll because of the unbalance (tower) especially in turns was still unacceptable. <br /><br />I am not falting John G. at all as this boat is not intended for day to day use, it is a "project boat" that is used as a TV Prop to support his show. <br /><br />If you would like to see the Smart Tabs Ship Shape TV segment I can send you a copy.

 

[BillP]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

nautiJohn,<br />Thanks for explaining your side. I wrote John G. for an explaination and did not receive a reply. In fact he has never responded to emails asking questions and I've been asking them for years.<br /><br />I saw the full show and how smarttabs trimmed the bow down better...they did a great job and it wasn't a surprise because all tabs do that. It did disturb me that NO followup was done and that sent a silent message that something was bogus. I found out why on another web site.<br /><br />I also agree the mako was hacked up and basically ruined performance wise due to cg and weight. However, I was responding to the continually used statement: "Well, have you EVER heard a post by ANYONE That didnt say they loved the Smart Tabs??? <br /><br />You have used the Shipshape episode to promote smarttabs on this web site yet not disclosed their removal on the mako until now? You have posted many times that backing up isn't a problem and now tell us John G. removed them for that reason. It isn't that John G. is the last "word" on products but he does have a following and people respect his opinion. My personal opinion (and I am nobody) is you, as a manufacturer, could and should have volunteered this info and explained it when using the ShipshapeTV installation as a promo tool. Do you use amsoil?...only joking!<br /><br />Bill

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

BillP;<br /><br />Believe it or not I have never seen the episode where John G. removed Smart Tabs and installed Bennetts. I was only made aware of the episode in the last month or so. In our area (Cleveland Ohio) I do not think John's show is running. It does run in Michigan, but I realy don't have the time to watch TV very often.<br /><br />Anyway; If Smart Tabs are deployed too much ( more than 30 degrees) there can be both slow and high speed handling issues and that is why we put a template in the box to help consumers get the 25 degrees of deployment.<br /><br />In John's case his statement that the tabs made the boat harder to control in reverse was never addressed again after I told him how to adjust them for less deployment. Just so you understand, we where invited to the show, we did not pay for the exposure nor any of the production cost. We are not a sponser either. He runs the show as an information and instructional show, his major sponsors such as West Marine provide the compensation for some of the production. He then contracts with various networks to run the shows and they pay him.<br /><br />However, as a separate business he produces commercials, and then books and sells the time slots to the manufacturers. This is not associated with the time slots for his shows, and in some cases (I think) not the same networks.<br /><br />Since West Marine also sells Bennett he may have been encouraged to do an episode on their product as well. <br /><br />In the thousands of sets we have sold in our short time in the market, only two people have come forward to us and claimed a problem with backing up, one was John G. and the other was a technical writer (see Sport boat Magazine - a web site) who put Smart Tabs on a dual engine jet boat. We do not recommend this installation since the jets bounce the water directly on the plates when the reverse gate is down. Jets don't back up very well to start with and this does not help. The single engine jets are not a problem, as the water is not deflected on to the plates.<br /><br />As you can imagine I have been on many boats with Smart Tabs and I have not experienced reverse handling issues. Even on John's. By the way he is in a brackish water heavey current channel on the inter-coastal water way in Florida. manuvering into his slip (cross current) is not easy under any circumstances. <br /><br />We have never tried to hide anything, nor have we deliberately tried to cover up or mis-lead people. The biggest problem is that the product does so much to improve the boats overall performance, people feel "it is too good to be true" so it can't be. But it is!<br /><br />If anyone has problems with our product we invite them to contact us, and will do whatever we can to fix the problem. I think our customer service record and satisfaction level is above average.

 

[BillP]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

NJ,<br />Thanks for the response. I'm not too far from John G's location and we never know when his show is playing either. <br />BP

 

[Snowdrggn]

Re: I bought a Doel Fin...... Now I have a Question

I have run 10-11 ft inflatables for several years, and have Smart Tabs on my current on. A friend of mine recently purchased an inflatable/motor and the dealer talked him into mounting a "fin" on his motor to ease getting onto a plane. After comparing our similar boats, He now owns Smart Tabs and the "fin" and is much happier with the performance of the boat. I must mention that the "fin" is now mounted on the wall of his shop, and the tabs are on his boat. Several times that I have had my boat out, other people with inflatables have noticed the tabs on my boat and questioned me about them. I just ask them if they want to run beside me with their inflatable and see what they do. All it takes is a very few minutes and they are sold on them. My inflatable comes onto a plane far quicker, and will stay on a plane at a far slower speed. Another benefit that I have found is that the boat is far more stable at speed.