I Got Screwed - "I Think"

[bwingler]

I wish i knew what to look at when i boat my boat. First boat, Its a 1973 Thunderhawk and can't find anything about it. I rebuilt both carbs, replaced hoses and got it running. Last night i was working on it and found the transom has a soft spot on the inside, go the the outside of the transom it is solid. The floor has soft places as well. It has a volvo penta AQ130C with a 270 stern drive. I paid $550.00 for the boat. Spent another $200.00 for the battery, carb kits and hose's. Any suggestions as i am really bummed out. The guy lied to me about the boats condition. I posted pictures at www.nature-powered.com/boat.

Should i dump it or what should i do. I have never worked with fiberglass before.

Thanks,
Barry

 

[redfury]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

How did he lie about the condition? The boat is 34 years old! $550 for a fully powered boat with a trailer...you paid a pretty average price for what you got.

Look at the boat in my link. I paid $300 for that, and I have no motor and had to spend another $150 for a trailer that I invested another $100 in so the boat could actually sit on it...and I have to replace the transom, stringers and floors!

New to boating....welcome! I have little experience with fiberglass, but you just need to do some research and if you have any mechanical ability ( or "knack" ) you should be able to do whatever repairs to your boat that you'd like.

As far as dumping it, it all depends on what you really want out of a boat.

Have you put it in water yet to see if it takes on any water? If the motor runs and you can cruise around the lake with it, you are already ahead of most of use with cheap boats.

You could have paid 5 times that much and gotten a boat with the same problems.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Read this section in the forum and you will get some ideas and suggestions. Your problem is common to a boat that age. If you intend to keep it then tackle the job.

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Welcome to iBoats.
Buying an used boat is a little like going on a blind date. She looked good, but.......... at least you'll know next time, what to look for.
There a many, many links on floor/stringers and transom rebuilds of small boats, here on iBoats. Do a search. Read the trials and tribulations of a rebuild. Then it's your decision. If you decide to do it, your boating summer is over. Set your expense budget (then double it). Having never done any fibreglassing, you definately should study the processes and ardous work involved. You have to consider your own budget, ability, stamina, tools and time. For many reasons, I did not finish mine. But many members have and have some real nice (older) boats.
And this is the best place to find answers to most of your questions.
With that whale tail, I'm assuming the boat has a problem getting on plane. That being the case, I'd also venture to say she's heavy with waterlogged foam. That means some serious work needs to be done.
You can easily spend another $1000 and end up with a fine looking, reliable $1,000 boat. Tough call!
At least for the original $550.00 investment, you should be able to part it out and recover that from the engine, drive, hardware and trailer.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

So far from what I seen of the boat it doesn't look that bad hull Wise, looks decent on the interior (it should last a while longer if taken care of), if you had to replace the interior that alone would cost money. Tell you my story and I'll give tips in the next paragraph. I bought my first boat knowing that it needed work done to the floor (it was all caved in). I got to thinking the boat was last used in 2006, even at that I had to check the transom. I tore a piece of the fiber glass out and found out that it was rotten, so I tore the wrest of it out leaving the very back piece of fiber glass on the hull, I only tore out the inside piece. I acquired 4 more boats sense I worked my but off on the one mentioned above. 3 boats were given to me 1 with a 35hp motor and the others had none. I bought a ski boat just for the motor and I paid $450 for it, and was talked into fixing the boat up so I tore the floor out of it separated the hull and so on. I only paid $150 for the first boat and haven't finished it yet because I ended up getting another hull in pretty good shape all around except the previous owner started sanding on the hull to repaint it and didn't finish the job.

I would say if nothing else the out drive and motor alone would probably sell for what you got in it. My uncle just sold the same kind of setup off of a pontoon boat for around $1000 if I'm not mistaken, and that was a Toyota motor. For the money you got in the boat you might get your money back trying to part it out. The trailer would be worth a few hundred bucks if it is in decent shape.

I took a screw out of the transom on one boat hull I junked and water just pored out of it, that told me that the transom was most likely shot. The transom can be reinforced but I wouldn't know were to tell you to start being you have an inboard motor, the floor most likely can be reinforced also. The runners/supports under the floor do rot out, that would be the part to worry about. I put new runners in the boat I mentioned earlier. Putting the floor in the boat, shouldn't be that expensive, I bought a 3 1/2 sq yards sheet of fiberglass for $22 and a 2 quart can of resin for $15, the wanted $44
for a gallon of resin. 1/2 inch pressure treated plywood would work for the floor, would be the cheaper way out. Marine plywood would probably be better, but expensive. Most likely have is a 2 piece hull on your boat you should be able to separate top from bottom. Overall I would say you could most likely get your money back even if you tried to resell the boat, just be honest with the customers. If you haven't stood inside the boat, try walking around in the hull and see what happens.

Chat later. There are some other more experienced people on this site it should be interesting to see what they half to say. Some of these people helped me with my electrical boat problems.

Wildmaninal

 

[luckyinkentucky]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

For $550 you did pretty good if she runs. If you don't watch it you can easily break the bank fixing up an old boat.

I ran across what I thought was a sweet deal not too long ago. A widow was selling the remnants of her husbands marina, and she had 3 ski boats for sale for $75 each with trailers. I did the math after looking at them, and basically what she had, after all that had to be done to the boats, was 3 ski boat hulls. I would have had to spend at least $4000 on each of them to get them watertight again, and shipworthy. Sure, they would have been good projects, but in the end I would still just have had $1000 boats if I was to sell them. Instead, I decided to buy a 12 year old one-owner boat with extremely low hours, and even though my initial investment was $8000 on a boat that averaged $10000 nationwide I STILL have to put $30 here and there into it to get it to my liking.

 

[dgopetactical]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

From what I see you got a good deal. As long as it runs (and the soft spots are not auful bad. If you dont want to fix it up I would just run it for 2 or 3 seasons and go from there. You will get your money out of it in 1/2 a season compaired to payments on a new boat. I bought a $3,500 boat with a soft areas in the floor(I was boat dumb at the time) I still run it hard and plan on fixing it when time and $$ allow.

 

[bwingler]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

What scares me the most is the transom, I am not scared to tackle the floor. I will post another motor picture, there is no motor mounts to support it, it is mounted to the bell housing only. Nothing is broke off our missing that i can see. Looking at the boat from inside, it is the left side of the transom that is soft on the inside, between the hull and the I/O mount. The right side is solid. The out side is solid. I am afaird to take it out on the lake in fear that the transom will bust out. Its just the age of the boat and a brand that no longer exist. God i wish i was not boat stupid when i bought it. Live and learn.

Barry

 

[dgopetactical]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Yes I understand your concerns. I would have somebody look at it or wait until you get more pics on the boards. The only good side I can give you now is you only paid $500 or so. I have heard of people buying a $20,000 and it died the 1st time out and needed $9,000 in repairs. Get some pics on and somebody will stear you right.

 

[Medic2556]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

I bought a 1989 Galasstream for $2200. We had 4 large adults standing on it when I bought it in February. Later when it became warmer, and I started to clean it up, the floor sagged under my weight, all the seats were rotted, and the stringers were rotted. I knew the engine worked, and that's about the only thing good on it. So some lessons learned are to not buy a boat in the winter, as the solid floor you are on could be solid ice! I bought a 1990 Marlin with no motor off Ebay for $127.51, and am going to fix the floor in that one, and change the motor to the Marlin while I replace everything in the Glasstream. Pictures will be coming, as I will have questions about holes drilled in the transom bottom, where something was attached, but have no idea what.

 

[John the landlubber]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Don't sweat it mate. My boat is about the same age as yours and a similar design. I am gonna say something that might be unpopular with the traditionalists here, but what the hell!!! I just started the transom on my boat (WHICH IS NOT THAT DIFFERENT FROM YOURS IN DESIGN). Although transom has rotted in places, is soaking wet in others and dry in others I have been trying to remove the old wood with a chainsaw, chisels and wrecking bar for five hours today and i'm not even halfway through.!!! These boats are tougher than you'd think!!! I would suggest that if you are gonna use it on a lake and you have a means of communicating with others to get help if needed and you have lifejackets etc, blow it out man!!! fire that old lump up and give it some stick. What's the worst that can happen??? You could break thye transom and have to rebuild it!!! Get some use out of the boat and if you like it in practical, performance and styling terms, then rebuild it bit by bit until your happy. Good luck.

 

[bwingler]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Thanks John,
I will try it, leaving the wife and kids home. I think she would be pissed if we we all went down like the titanic. Could you post some pictures of yours? Also i posted the motor and the transom pictures www.nature-powered.com/boat as you can see the motor leans forward. Now for the kicker, there has never been a front motor mount from the get go. Nothing missing, broke or rotted off. The back of the transom at the stern drive is not pushed out. But you can see where one washer is sunk into the transom. The rest are flush. The laminate is lose around the blower area. Anyone have any ideas? I am not a boat expert anyway shape or form.

 

[External Combustion]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

bwingler:

You most certianly did not get screwed. You must however decide in which of two camps you reside. One camp is the lack of ability to adress the problem yourself due to finances, lack of physical ability, lack of time, etc. There is no shame associated with this camp. I have resided in it for a time myself. The other camp involves hard work, furthering your education and putting aside fears of the unkown.

I am no great salt sailor and no great boatbuilder. I started a wooden boat a number of years ago and "gimme boats" came out of the woodwork and many friends came by to ask how to salvage family boats that others had said to junk. I was too green to understand that "that can't be saved". I can tell you that no matter what the condition it can be fixed with time and money.

How much time? How much money? Less than you might think if you are willing to do it yourself. From what I can see it would be less than $500.

I will assume that the fiberglass on your boat is polyester resin based (flexable) yet if it is expoy based there is no difference. Take a die grinder with a cutoff disc and simply cut around the outside edge of the transom and remove the fiberglass from the rotted wood. Some prying may be needed. Take the wood off. It will come out in chunks and probably will not be usable as a pattern. Use paper to make a tracing of the hull to cut out a plywood replacement. Some will insist on marine grade plywood, yet from experience in not being able to get marine grade locally, I have hade great sucess in using exterior ACB plywood. Put the replacement tramsom on the boat, hold it there with a few screws, coat it with resin and place the fiberglass skin. If the skin was destroyed when it was taken off then two coats of 22 oz roving and a finish coat of 4 oz cloth will make it look new. You will have to do some experimenting to match the gel coat color but it can be done unless you are color blind. If you are then you will need some help.

West System has wonderful booklets that explain the whole proceedure. I believe that MAAS also has pamplets that show how a beginner can do the project with some determination.

I have rebuilt several trasoms now for others. I would say the average time for a transom was fifteen hours each and the first one was about fourty as I was much more nervous. The tools I have used is an air cut off tool (an electric drill with an abrasive blade will work), a hand circular saw, a portable drill, sandpaper, a straightedge. a belt sander as I have one, a pair of tin snipps that I use to cut the roving and cloth,and resin application tools that I cut out of plastic cottage cheeze contianers.

My suppliers have been good to me. The three that I will recommend are all on the web. Jamestown Distributors, Hamilton Marine and Defender.

I know most here will shudder as to the heavy handed methods that have worked for me, yet I have had no mentors to learn from and the methods do work. Find knowledgeable and friendly folk if you can. They will probably save you time and money from what I have described.

Don't be afraid if you decide to reside in camp two. Otherwise you can easily get your money back without lying by advertising exactly what you have.

If you need some more encouragement check out Steamlaunchphoenix.com.

 

[new_boater]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

dude, i paid 500.00 for mine (see below) no seats at all and i know in 1-2 yrs i will be doing a floor and i think i got a good deal your boat looks awesome just needs some work. to be expected for a vintage boat though

 

[bwingler]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

I guess i expected it to be better from what the seller told me, What makes it bad for me is am not a wood worker or a fiberglass man. The boat is not worth taking in and having a transom replaced, So i guess i will have to deal with it myself. The seller assured me that it was a sound vessel with a minor soft spot in the floor. Its only problem was it would not idle, according to him. Rebuilt the carbs and sync them up with my uni sync and it idles fine now. I quess i will put it on the water this week and see what else is wrong. Check it for leaks. I can work on the motor,stern drive and electrical, guess i will learn how to glass and wood work. Also should i lose the whale tail?

 

[Sailor77.7]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

You got a good deal on this boat from what I can see in your pics. Yes, you have some problems dealing with the transom having a soft spot. You also have an engine that does not have motor mounts of any sort. Your floor has a few soft spots too. You have a working motor and a decent trailer from what I can see. You can sell those for more than what the boat cost you. Here is my project that I am working on...
http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/p...,p,391,00.html
My floor was completely shot. I have tore it mostly out and found that the foam inside was water logged. I also had 6 inches of water in the aft compartment where there was no foam at all. I have lots of work to do with this boat too. It is a 1970 Lasvegas Sahara tri-hull. They are no longer in business and I can not find anything on the internet about them either. You need to make a decision on yours. Either part it out and sell it or fix it. I'd fix it and make it the way you want it in the end. You'd have a boat that would last for yrs and that you could give to your kids. Your friends might know alot about engines or fiberglassing as well. The possiblilities are wide open. Have fun with this.

Vr,

sailor77.7

 

[Solittle]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

The point to be learned here is to never trust anything any seller tells you about the condition of anything. You must verify for yourself or you could wind up like Bwingler.

 

[bwingler]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

Solittle hit the nail on the head, i wish i did my homework first and found this forum before the purchase. O well i am over the shock of the bad transom, At least everyone is encouraging. I will let everyone know what happens in the water. Before i pull it off the trailer i will make sure i dont have a major leak. This will be interesting.

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: I Got Screwed - "I Think"

there has never been a front motor mount from the get go. Nothing missing, broke or rotted off.

I'm certain that it has had motor mounts. The stringers are probably gone and there is no place for the mounts to attach. I've never had a 4 banger, but I'm sure someone will chime in about that. The transome needs replaced so don't worry about the inner panel, you're probably going to cut that out anyway.
Unlike an O/B, by design an I/O transom does little more than keep the water out. The torque movement of the vessel is from the engine to the I/O. The engine is hence mounted to the stringers and gets pushed forward (and backward) by unit's applied counter torque.

found this
volvo penta AQ130C motor mount discussion

 

[wildmaninal]

you should of thought about that deal

you should of thought about that deal

He should of bought the boats for the trailers if nothing else and sold them for $300 a piece if not more....

For $550 you did pretty good if she runs. If you don't watch it you can easily break the bank fixing up an old boat.

I ran across what I thought was a sweet deal not too long ago. A widow was selling the remnants of her husbands marina, and she had 3 ski boats for sale for $75 each with trailers. I did the math after looking at them, and basically what she had, after all that had to be done to the boats, was 3 ski boat hulls. I would have had to spend at least $4000 on each of them to get them watertight again, and shipworthy. Sure, they would have been good projects, but in the end I would still just have had $1000 boats if I was to sell them. Instead, I decided to buy a 12 year old one-owner boat with extremely low hours, and even though my initial investment was $8000 on a boat that averaged $10000 nationwide I STILL have to put $30 here and there into it to get it to my liking.