I hate car shopping.

[triumphrick]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I noticed one other post that mentioned Consumer Reports. I have bought 42 vehicles in my 45 years of buying/driving cars. Either for me, family or friends. I have always been the local "car guy".
I used my first Edmund's new car guide in 1962 for my stepfather. We priced out a few cars and he bought a new Falcon.
I go into the dealership armed with as much fact as I can gather. I first read about hold backs around 20 yrs. ago. I too felt the dealership was entitled to something and never went after that money.
One of my best dealerships was a Ford dealer in Bartow, Fla. My salesman became fleet manager which helped bunches when I started a business. I usually went back, looking for similar deals.
Recently the two hardest dealers to buy from are the Honda and Toyota dealers. (Also Acura, Lexus). Not to start a brand war here, but they and Subaru are currently selling some of the "least problematic" vehicles being made. And their salesmen know it. Many of them can be downright rude. But if you want a new one, you have to show up there properly armed. Try to buy on the last day of the month. Or close to it.
I mentioned CR because of the in depth pricing and bargaining angles they present. Things change and after all these years I still go armed with facts and figures.
I detail and sell my own vehicle. I have only traded three of them in all my years. To me, it's an adventure! I usually have a good time with it....

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: I hate car shopping.

What I do is when I have found a vehicle that I like, test driven and am prepared to buy if the price is right is to tell the salesman that I want to know exactly how many dollar bills I would have to give him to drive the car away. No add on items other than new plates if we are not transferring them. I tell them that they get one shot at it. If I like the price I will buy it there and then. If I do not like the price I will walk away with no second chance.
Many dealers come back with an inflated price so I move on. They then after I start to leave want to start negotiating again. I have however found one small town dealer locally that did exactly as I asked, came up with an acceptable price and I have bought the vehicle without any hassle. Their price has been significantly lower than every other dealers "best price" and when we write it up it has been a few hundred dollars lower than their quoted price.
One reason they keep ending up with my business.

 

[jbjennings]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I was looking for a decent deal on a new truck as well recently. I went to a dealership and the salesman kept playing these foolish games with me as well--going back and forth to the "manager". This was about a month ago. I went by this dealership on the way to buy a truck I saw on craigslist and it had vanished! I wonder why??? Anyway, the salesman was telling me that the factory was running some really good deals on '08s but of course they had none and none were found within 500 miles. I hate waiting on these "rebates".
I find those salesman seem to be trained to assume everyone is an idiot and incapable of doing simple math in their heads, and if they spout enough bullcrap they get folks that are easily confused to thinking they got a really good deal. I don't think a brand new vehicle is ever in my future unless I win the lottery.
I really love the truck I bought last Tues.---a 2001 chevrolet ext. cab z-71 in dark green metallic with a tan interior with BG goodrich all-terrains and 95,000 miles and a 5.3 v8, and driven by a med student. Exactly what I wanted. It looked brand new, the underside looked like it was off the showroom floor. I got it for less than 1/3 what they cost new as well. I do think the domestic trucks are being built with far better quality than they were in the past as far as motors/trans. and such. Other parts, like door handles, taillights, etc. not so good. But I have 256,000 miles on my old '98 chevy and it still runs GREAT. Craigslist, I think, is the way to go, and you have the pleasure of avoiding the dealerships, too.
I do agree with the small town dealers. I live near one and like they say, if they don't treat you decent they shut down. I would have tried to buy one from them but they're a Ford dealer and I like chevrolets. My wife drives a Ford explorer with the SOHC 4.0 v6 and it's been a good truck and has a decent amount of power as well.
I hope you don't mind if I show a picture of my "new rig". I'm really proud of it. Best thing is, it will be paid for in <4 months after I sell my old truck and my old mazda 2200.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: I hate car shopping.

Sharp looking rig, JB. I don't blame you fro showing it off!! Yes, craigslist is the new marketplace for us as well. Looks like you did a real good job there!

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: I hate car shopping.

Nice looking truck. Hope all goes well with it for you.

 

[mphy98]

Re: I hate car shopping.

One thing to know is when a salesman shows you an "invoice" That IS HIS TOOL NOT YOURS. My BIL who has sold new cars for many years told me that most dealers can show you "an invoice" that says anything they want it to because you cant verify the numbers.Like I said before never let a dealer tell you or show you what the car value is,if you do its more money from your pocket and more money into theirs. I believe the game that you often have to play to buy a car is part of the reason the car makers are in trouble. People are sick of it.

WOW again, the cynicism here is unbelievable. I have never seen even a large metro dealer that can "manufacture invoices". It just isn't worth our time or effort. No one sells a program for this and the time it would take to cut and past one would make it an hour or two long project to tailer it to the individual. If you want to see what the dealer pays for a car you can go to the manufactures website and get it. I really don't get why people are upset that a dealer will make $1000.00 on average on a 20 to 30 thousand dollar car or truck INCLUDING HOLDBACK but go buy a couch that cost 2000.00 and the dealer makes 700.00. or a fishing reel that the dealer pays 20.00 and sells for 50.00. I guess it has always been fashionable to berate dealers. YES there are bad ones out there just like other professions, but you never here about the good ones. Also next time you have new park swing sets or play gyms, or the school gets new uniforms or a new set of computers for a computer lab that YOUR LOCAL DEALER DONATED, remember to bash him or her.

 

[beerfilter]

Re: I hate car shopping.

WOW, I am sorry to see the dealership bashing going on here. While I will agree that the big city stores may pull a lot of this garbage, I see a lot of customers from big city's that come into our small town dealership with huge chips on there shoulders as well. Having worked in the small town dealership for thirty years as sales manager, gm, and finance mgr I can tell you we treat people right or we would not have been in business for 70 years. I would recommend to anyone to go to a small town dealership, treat the sales and other persons there with respect and they will in turn treat you the same. Don't BS them with ridiculous statements that you can get at "other" places because they all use the same black book for appraisals and are seldom more than a few hundred dollars different. All ford, GM, Chrysler dealers pay the same amount for the exact same model, the rebates do vary region to region though. My advise is do your homework, check KB.com for your value of trade in. Use trade value not retail, be honest with condition to yourself. Go to Ford or Chrysler or Gm's site and you can build your own vehicle and get the retail as well as invoice price the dealer pays now. Be aware that the exact car you want may have to be ordered, or located which if located will accrue additional costs but if you need it now so be it. In closing just be reasonable and most small town dealers will be as well. I am talking new car dealers here in case you didn't guess. thank you bob

Yeah , the dealers around my town are not going to deal with ANYONE , as we have a military base here . They know if you are not willing to pay that hugely inflated sticker price , some young E-3 or E-4 with no money or sense but lots of credit , will sign on the dotted line .

Go an hour away , and things are radically different .

In 2002 , I was shopping for a new Jeep to replace my totalled 94 .
I decided to go with the Rubicon model .

Local dealer was COMPLETELY ****e nuts on their price , marked up the ones on their lot by 15k over MSRP , and the sales guy not only didn't know a thing about the vehicle , but flatly and rudely refused to dicker .

So , I did a little leg work , "built" the Rubicon I wanted with the features I wanted on Jeep's website , found out the invoice and MSRP .
I then emailed the dealer an hour away , gave them the exact specs and told them I was willing to deal between Invoice and MSRP .

I stopped in to talk the next week , and they offered me invoice on the order (Rubicons were special orders only the first year ..) , plus the $1k rebate .
Needless to say , I sealed the deal , wrote them an $800 deposit , and got the vehicle in a few months . I then put a large cash down payment (along with the previous deposit..) and financed the rest through my bank . After all was said and done , I paid just below MSRP even after I totalled taxes and loan interest .

Guess which of the 2 dealers gets my business now ?

Most dealers like to finance in house , and , take trade-ins .
This is so they can give you a "sticker price" , then play all sorts of games with the financing charges , interest rates , etc.. , to get their money .
Lots of particulars on Edmunds and other web sites ....

Take this scenario out of the equation . Sell your old vehicle private party .
You get 2-3x the trade in value .
Finance through your own bank . You know what they will approve for what you specify , what the interest rate is , and , what you need to put down .

Exactly how you go from here is up to you .
Just keep your offer reasonable , entertain a little room for them to deal , but keep the leash short . Don't let them jerk you around with a long string of excuses or unacceptable counter-offers . If they can't meet your offer within an hour , they are just wasting your time . Move on to the next dealer .
Eventually , you will get your vehicle at your price .
There are some dealers out there who are honest , you just have to do a little looking .

 

[jkust]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I think I have resigned myself to not shopping at the dealers here in MN. I do not appreciate being disrespected with B.S. The SUV I looked at this week had the original tires that had a little less than half tread left. They were on a SAAB and were very expensive tires but were not clearly not new. (this is the same vehicle for which they raised the price after I spoke to them two days prior.) The salesguy told me they were new which was so obvously not true and I disagreed but he insisted. I mean give me a break at least lie to me about something that isn't so completely and blatently false. I think another issue is that if you are seeking a certain vehicle, you know everything there is to know about that particylar type and usually more than a used sales guy. Instantly then you know when they are not being truthful. The problem though is that the dealers seem to have all the vehicles. I look at Craigs List, Cars.com, Carsoup and autotrader primarily but there are very few private party sellers for these newer midsized suv's. Does everyone trade their cars in or what? Maybe everyone leases...I can't figure it out. The private party cars are always cheaper but are hard to find.

 

[BF]

Re: I hate car shopping.

WOW again, the cynicism here is unbelievable. I have never seen even a large metro dealer that can "manufacture invoices". It just isn't worth our time or effort. No one sells a program for this and the time it would take to cut and past one would make it an hour or two long project to tailer it to the individual. If you want to see what the dealer pays for a car you can go to the manufactures website and get it. I really don't get why people are upset that a dealer will make $1000.00 on average on a 20 to 30 thousand dollar car or truck INCLUDING HOLDBACK but go buy a couch that cost 2000.00 and the dealer makes 700.00. or a fishing reel that the dealer pays 20.00 and sells for 50.00. I guess it has always been fashionable to berate dealers. YES there are bad ones out there just like other professions, but you never here about the good ones. Also next time you have new park swing sets or play gyms, or the school gets new uniforms or a new set of computers for a computer lab that YOUR LOCAL DEALER DONATED, remember to bash him or her.

I guess the problem (for me) is that if I go buy a couch or a reel or whatever, there is a price on it.. I know how much it will cost for me to take it home. With car dealers, many (not all), will look you up and down and try to maximize how much they can get you to pay. Certainly this offer sheet running to the Sales manager and coming back with a counter offer etc etc. does not make one feel they are being dealt with in a straightforward manner. Instead of getting their $1000 or whatever profit from me, their opening position often seems to be, we'll test to see if you're a sucker and try and get $10,000 from you, if that doesn't work, we'll see where we end up. I don't feel too bad trying to get the best price, b/c they would not sell the car to me if it didn't meet their requirements that they are making money off the sale.

I haven't even touched with some of the outrageous things that have happened in the service dept when I've taken my new car back for warranty work... Having a number of what should be straightforward dealings go sour doesn't leave one with a warm fuzzy feeling for dealers. As for their donations... well some do give stuff back (but many/most successful businesses do). I know several real estate agents that are very generous in their gifts to the community. Of course it's written off as advertising for them too, and never mind that the reason they can give the $$$ is b/c they are making large sums of cash with 6-7% commissions in a real estate market that is still very hot (at least here).... similar to car dealers... if they weren't making money (which is fine) they wouldn't be giving cash away... in my books, that doesn't earn them the latitude that many of them seem to take with their customers.... that's just IMHO.

And I agree... not all dealerships are the same... I've known sales people who worked at a dealership for a while but then left after a year or so b/c of their conscience was constantly bothering them. (e.g. pressuring people to sign a lease when they knew it was a bad decision for the customer)... I know one guy felt much better about the business after switching dealerships... it was more above board. It probably comes from whatever business model the owner/managers think will work the best for them...

 

[tommays]

Re: I hate car shopping.

On Long Island there are very few family dealers left the rest are owned BIG groups and they are the ones that have most of the sham adds and consumer affairs issues


It is and ALL brand problem when there dealers get in consumer affairs problems with adds and do NOT step in to protect there brand name

 

[OldePharte]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I understand the need for dealer profit, but like others, I hate the haggling. Just give me your price upfront.

So, when the Bosslady needed a new car, I did the research and decided to go the Internet route. Had several dealers send me back their "No haggle" price and we decided to use one a couple miles away.

So we make the appointment with the Internet Sales Lady, we do the test drive, yada yada, and it came time to do the paper work. The price has changed, and not to our advantage. So we go back and forth on this is what you quoted, "let me talk to the sales manger" stuff, etc. We decided to take a walk and sleep on it. So she calls about every day offering $500 off if we would come in that day. The real down side was that the Bosslady really loved the car. So we go back later in the week. They start the same BS all over again. This time I told her, I want to speak to the owner. Not in (well I saw him walk in) she says. So we get up to leave and I flat told her, either I talk with the owner or we are gone. Little did she know that he was walking past, behind her, and he heard her say that he wasn't in. Needless to say we got a meeting with him.

I explained why we were unhappy with our experience. He called in the sales manager and the sales lady and we had a nice conversation regarding their "No Haggle" Internet pricing policy.

 

[cribber]

Re: I hate car shopping.

In a weird way I enjoy car shopping... When I get a wild hair to change up vehicles I do my research and know what I'm willing to pay and hopefully get somewhere around 3% below dealer invoice since that is what I'm entitled to because of where I work. I always dress down (shorts, slaps, sleeveless shirt, and sun glasses) and wait to see who's gonna bite. I've been passed up by quite a few sales folks because they think I couldn't possibly afford the part of the lot I'm looking at. I never go in with a trade since I don't want to haggle over the value... I sell it locally for a decent price and use the proceeds as my down payment.

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I dont everything but I do know that when you buy a new car YOU WILL NEVER find out what they made off of you,,NEVER.........You see the whole system works together by their rules and schemes and it doesnt include you.Also by checking the price from the maker just how do you know that it is really what the dealer pays?. Like I said THIS is TOP SECRET..lol All you can do is shop alot of differant dealers and never let them know what other final prices you have been given. Car dealers are like drug stores. All the customer wants is the product at the best price they can offer but for some reason all of them have their lots on very very expensive real estate which proves cost is not the bottom line for them. If a dealer had a lot on side street and offered the best price it would make no differance, people would still flock in to buy. Thats my opinion.

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: I hate car shopping.

Their overhead is more likely to be reflected in pre-owned vehicles and services rather than in the prices of new cars.

 

[jkust]

Re: I hate car shopping.

I've been passed up by quite a few sales folks because they think I couldn't possibly afford the part of the lot I'm looking at.

Same exact situation here. I am relatively young and for good or bad, look younger yet, but am in the top 1% of earners and higher yet for savings rate. There are probably very few cars or suv's I could not write a check for but the dealers do not know that. They judge me by my 12 year old car I drive in and that I am in jeans. If I am truly interested in the car, I will hand them my business card and ask them to call me when they are ready to negotiate or when they get a certain model in stock. I have actually seen more than one jaw drop as they read my card as they realize their judgement was wrong at the end of the encounter. It suprises me in this day and age that this particular type of profiling still goes on. I am not sure if it is my young appearance or my late 90,s car I rolled up in but this all happens for cars under $20,000 not even the higher end brands. Just another reason my dealings with dealerships are less than pleasant.