I need a straight answer...

[generator12]

Guys, I discovered the Iboats forums after I sold my old Sylvan 18 footer and bought an old Four Winns with a 470 Merc. I came to the forum for information on maintaining and upgrading the boat and engine, and have been well-served by it. But I have a question or two on maintenance.

I averaged two to four trips on the water per summer with the Sylvan (outboard) over the 30 odd years I had it, and I'm finding that I'm still in that range with the 4W Horizon. And these are basically gentle cruises, not WOT rushes, and total no more than 20 hours per year.

I see, over and over, posters insisting that the impeller be replaced every second year, that the drive be removed each year and numerous things checked and replaced, etc. But like anything else, maintenance intervals are typically based on use. As I have no previous experience with I/O's, and my local Mercruiser dealers have generally atrocious charge rates for labor time, I need to nail down just what I actually need to do to keep this thing running right.

So, once again, I'm looking to the guys on this forum for the knowledge. With light use such as described, what would you do with a Merc 470/Alpha 1 to keep it in good running condition. What would your annual maintenance routine look like?

As always, thanks for your time/attention. You've been a great help.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: I need a straight answer...

It freezes every winter in the Milwaukee suburbs.
So winterizing is a must. Oil change and Lower lube change when the antifreeze goes in.

The impeller lasts longer if you use it. It is rubber and will take a set if not used.
If you use it one month and let it sit for eleven, two years max, some may say every year.
If you pull the drive for winter, remove the impeller so it will not be deformed, put it back in next year if it still looks good.
The impeller is cheap, and easy to change, it is the labor that will kill you.
Check the engine alignment as long as the drive is off.
Lube the U-Joints just before the the drive goes back on.

The cost of maintenance will be the same for 20 hours or 200 hours.
Learn to do your own routine maintenance, using the boat only 4 days a year is worse than using it 100!
It is cheaper to maintain than it is to repair.
Blowing a coupler or an impeller could cost thousands in tows and repairs, less than $100 to maintain.

At 2 to 4 trips a year you might consider renting instead of owning.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: I need a straight answer...

rubber in the impeller takes a set over winter - hence one of the reasons for recommended shorter duration. you can get up to about 5 years out of the impeller with constant use.

the other is that the bellow should be inspected every 2 yeas.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: I need a straight answer...

Depends on the water conditions too. If you are traveling over shallow sandy areas then yes yearly otherwise I would say every two years maybe 3.

 

[spdracr39]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I think you're occasional use makes the preventative maintenance more important because with the limited number of opportunities per year to use the boat you don't want to lose any by having a preventable issue. Learn what can go wrong and learn how to inspect it yourself and it will be little or no additional cost.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: I need a straight answer...

... But like anything else, maintenance intervals are typically based on use..
.

Except that in real Mercruiser manuals, they use the phrase "or Yearly" in most cases. The drive HAS to come off every year, to check for water in the bellows and to grease the u-joints. So draining it of its lube and re-filling is easy to do at that point. (It's also done "just like" an outboard). Alpha One impellers are not as robust as Alpha One Gen 2s. And since it is in the lower unit, you can't change it on the water, if/when it fails. So, take the lower unit off the upper and see what it looks like this year.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I need a straight answer...

My .02 We use our boat a lot and i pull the lower every 3 years to replace the impeller which still looks new when I replace it.
I pulled the upper for the first time this winter (5 seasons of use) to inspect the bellows and seals - which were all fine.

I change the gear oil every 2 years and do the engine oil/filter before every season.
Plugs, cap and rotor were replaced at 4 years.

You have an older boat, so you're going to want to do everything once this season so that you know the condition of everything.
There is no reason to pay someone to do any of this normal maint work, it could be taught to a small child if they were capable of lifting the drive

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I need a straight answer...

grease the u-joints.

Grease the u-joints? What kind of u-joints does your boat have?

 

[soggy_feet]

Re: I need a straight answer...

My .02 We use our boat a lot and i pull the lower every 3 years to replace the impeller which still looks new when I replace it.
I pulled the upper for the first time this winter (5 seasons of use) to inspect the bellows and seals - which were all fine.

I change the gear oil every 2 years and do the engine oil/filter before every season.
Plugs, cap and rotor were replaced at 4 years.

You have an older boat, so you're going to want to do everything once this season so that you know the condition of everything.
There is no reason to pay someone to do any of this normal maint work, it could be taught to a small child if they were capable of lifting the drive

I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on oil change intervals, or when they do it.

One thing to think about oldjeep, or anyone else changing their oil in the spring....

Engines/oil picks up contaminants, including moisture. You're better off changing your oil in the fall rather than let that "bad" oil sit over the winter.

Believe it or not, but I have some rust on my rockers from previous owners not changing the oil often enough, or when they pulled the boat for the winter.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: I need a straight answer...

Believe it or not, but I have some rust on my rockers from previous owners not changing the oil often enough, or when they pulled the boat for the winter.

I thought that rust was a Vermont standard on everything we own. We use so much salt on our roads ever wood rusts!

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I've always changed the oil in our stored boats, jeep, stored cars and lawn equipment in the spring so that they are starting out with fresh oil rather than stuff that has been sitting in the crankcase during all the temp/humidity shifts we get in the late fall/winter.

Not sure how you could attribute top end rust in storage to when you changed the oil.

But I guess the important point is make sure you change it

 

[shrew]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I maintain my outdrive yearly. Change drive lube, and this includes reaplacing gaskets. I even replace the lube drain and inspection screw gaskets. I do the lower unit in the fall. This is for two reasons; if water made it's way in, I want it out as soon as possible, not siting all winter. Water will eventually settle and you'll potentially have water sitting directly on gears, shafts and/or bearings all winter. Secondly, it gives me all winter to find and fix the problem. I don't want to start tearing down a drive when I should be washing and waxing. The same applies to the engine oil. Oil and filter change in the fall for the same reasons. Oil, a filter, an impellor and some lube and a few gaskets. It's once a year. I don't find it a big deal. The alternative to preventive maintenance could be rebuild or replace.

 

[and2ram]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I think what you will find is a lot of posters on here want to 'fiddle' with things. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. I called up my dad because I was curious how often he changed impellors. His response was, why replace it if the engine temp is normal? This same principle was applied to a 260hp Mercruiser 350/Alpha 1 owned for 15 years and a 50hp Mercury 2 stroke owned for 12 years. The only issue encountered was a cracked exhaust maniforld on the Mercruiser, which had nothing to do with the impellor. I think common sense should prevail-gear lub and oil once a year (definitely in the fall so you can verify any water is out and mx can be performed then as opposed to a beautiful spring day when you could be on the lake). Take the drive off every year, why? Messing with these things is only going to increase the potential for issues. Bellows can be checked without removing the drive. I do think that, since it's your first season owning the boat, it's a good idea to replace the bellows, seals, gaskets, impellor, oil, and gear lube. All this will cost less than $300 and then you will be caught up on the preventative mx.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I've always changed the oil in our stored boats, jeep, stored cars and lawn equipment in the spring so that they are starting out with fresh oil rather than stuff that has been sitting in the crankcase during all the temp/humidity shifts we get in the late fall/winter.

Not sure how you could attribute top end rust in storage to when you changed the oil.

But I guess the important point is make sure you change it

I change the oil in all my engines in the spring too for the same reason.... Except my snowmobile, which gets changed in the fall....

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I need a straight answer...

Not sure I'd wait until the boat overheats to replace the impeller, but otherwise it sounds good.

Another thing to consider is what part of the country some of the advise comes from. You'll see threads about bellows and trailer tires rotting out every 3 years - which is normal in some southern areas where your tennis shoes melt into mush from the air.
In WI you don't have issues like that, aside from things that rust everything lasts longer up here

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: I need a straight answer...

Take the drive off every year, why? Messing with these things is only going to increase the potential for issues...

Wrong. How else are you going to see if the input shaft yoke seal is leaking? How else will you grease the u-joints? Yes oldjeep, there are u-joints in there. Can't believe you have neer seen them. Nowadays of course those u-joints aren't greasable, but on a 470 they sure as heck should be!
You can see the top of the driveshaft bellows wit the drive on? really? Also, removing the drive every year allows you to check the engine alignment,check the gimbal bearing, and grease the couple splines.

As far as the impeller, yeah sure, wait til it fails to replace it. That's fine. But what if that failure happens on a day when you are 20 miles away from the trailer? Or have your kid's friend out for a party? Or a storm is coming up? Or ... Really for 2 hours of your time and a $28 impeller you're gonna skip it for years?

But hey, you all do what you want. But remember, when you are buying a used boat and the guy selling it says, "I only put 10 hours a year on it, so I didn't do all the required maintenance" make sure to offer him FULL RETAIL price, because hey, "it's such a low hour boat, what could be wrong with it?"

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: I need a straight answer...

...The alternative to preventive maintenance could be rebuild or replace.

Exactly!

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I need a straight answer...

Yes oldjeep, there are u-joints in there.

LOL - no kidding. Modern boats and cars for that matter don't have any grease zerks on u-joints, and even on joints with zerks in a clean environment there isn't usually a reason to be trying to pump grease into them after initial install - just promotes seal failure.

 

[Don S]

Re: I need a straight answer...

You have to grease the coupler splines and shaft. That can only be done by removing the drive on the 90 and earlier drives. You pull the engine to replace couplers.

470 engines do not like overheats, due to the open deck designed aluminum block and cast iron heads, an overheat usually results in a leaky head gasket. Impellers a easier to change than head gaskets.

Here is the Maintenance Schedule from the Mercruiser 470 Service Manual.

.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: I need a straight answer...

I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on oil change intervals, or when they do it.

One thing to think about oldjeep, or anyone else changing their oil in the spring....

Engines/oil picks up contaminants, including moisture. You're better off changing your oil in the fall rather than let that "bad" oil sit over the winter.

Believe it or not, but I have some rust on my rockers from previous owners not changing the oil often enough, or when they pulled the boat for the winter.

since oil turns acidic over time from the combustion process and starts to break down quickly, I would rather have fresh oil sitting all winter, even if it gets condensation in it vs having the bearings eaten away from the oil.