I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

[roscottjr]

Ok, I now have the boat. I just have a slight question. This boat and my other are the same size, lengthwise, this one may be slightly longer. My other one is a 1988 MAXUM 20ft with Force 125 outboard and 6 passenger capacity. Although we currently use this boat it still needs deck replaced, seats are cracked really bad and wouldnt last if we werent being carfeul with them, and since the deck needs replaced I will be doing the stringers and transom as well. This "new" boat 1985 Chaparral 198 I/O that was given to me has no interior, needs deck, stringer, and most likely transom replacement, engine has cracked block and exhaust manifolds due to freeze damage, outdrive has been rebuilt and is in good condition although I wouldnt use it without installing a seal kit and water pump. I know for sure this boat will need all woodwork, longblock engine, exhaust manifolds, starter and alternator, and interior. This boat has 9 passenger capacity.

Given the choice between these two, which would be the better choice to restore? I think they are both worth it and I dont mind doing the work. I only have 1 trailer at the moment so they couldnt both go to the lake anyway. We are a family of 6 and usually have others that want to ride so the extra person capability would be a plus. Just looking for others thoughts on this. I kinda prefer the I/O over the force but I personally have not had any problems with the Force engine so I cant really use that as a comparison.

Thanks
Robert

 

[Blujay96]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

I would go with the I/O. That is just my personel choice. I have always had good luck with mine.

 

[RWilson2526]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

I dont know if its really and I/O vs Outboard thing.....you have a running motor on a boat that you use regularly.... I'd fix that one up first to a point I was pretty happy with it and then move on to the Chapparal that sounds like a real fixer upper.

 

[slasmith1]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Fix the I\O and use the force as an anchor.

 

[81 beachcomber]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

I dont know if its really and I/O vs Outboard thing.....you have a running motor on a boat that you use regularly.... I'd fix that one up first to a point I was pretty happy with it and then move on to the Chapparal that sounds like a real fixer upper.

agreed

i would stick with the boat you have been using and know the history to it and the motor...its been reliable where as if you go with the other you know nothing of the motor and its reliablilty....fix it after

 

[roscottjr]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

OK here is what I am thinking. The running boat needs plenty of work but thanks to the previous owner simply laying a piece of treated plywood over the rooted deck and the seats are usable as long as we are careful with them the boat is a runner and I think will do fine while we fix the Chaparral with the I/O. also, aside from what I have heard about Force engines, we only have about 12 hours run time on the boat with the Force and have already had to replace a CDI pack. Im not sure if something caused it to go out or if it was just time for it to go out due to age. Either way, the CDI pack is fixed and I have another already for a spare. Also, when we purchased the boat with the Force engine, the first thing I did was fog, and all the good stuff, including trying to smoke out my neighbors (good thing I live in the country), and because I had no way of knowing the previous history I went ahead and got a complete seal kit and water pump for the foot. The only known issue with the boat now is the tilt/trim valve body needs to be replaced due to leak down. Otherwise the boat is in good enough condition that we will have a boat to use while working on the other. From what I understand, the I/O is better on gas but what about speed? Will the I/O with 305 or 350 be faster than the Force 125hp or will they be about the same? The boats are both basically identical in size.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Speed is going to be better and so will fuel as compared to what I know about Force. Should be quieter operating also. Will be arse heavy in comparison however, course trim tabs can help that. You are lucky in that the out drive is in good shape that helps a lot. Be sure and check the hose(s) between the outdrive and the mount it attaches to. If you're mechanically inclined go and get a automotive used block in good shape and gut it putting all your marine engine parts in it....that's what the OEM's do but with new stuff using either Ford or Chevy blocks. Seems Mercruiser uses both. Hone or rebore the block and change the existing parts that show signs of wear. If your exhaust manifolds are cast iron, get a certified welder to weld up the cracks.

You might come out ok on that deal.

Mark

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

If I were in your shoes I would sell both boats and go for a pontoon or deck boat.

Either option of yours is a huge amount of work and a fair amount of expense. If I had to choose between the two options, for your situation I would chose the I/O.

I still think neither is a good option. Get rid of them both!

 

[mike343]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

If I were in your shoes I would sell both boats and go for a pontoon or deck boat.

Either option of yours is a huge amount of work and a fair amount of expense. If I had to choose between the two options, for your situation I would chose the I/O.

I still think neither is a good option. Get rid of them both!

Super advice

 

[roscottjr]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

I thought this was a help forum? I have been a member of iboats since June 06 mostly in part to the helpful advice I have seen given here. Yet I am asking for advice on the 2 boats I have and the last 2 posters are telling me to get rid of both boats. I dont know about either of you but I work from home, have 4 kids, 1 on the way. It is much easier for me to restore a boat than to go and outright buy one. Every single boat I have looked at under $8000 had problems whether it was engine, drive, deck, or whatever. So aside from buying a new boat, I would be looking at the same repairs shortly regardless of what I do. You cant get your money back out of a boat even if you bought it brand new and sold it 10 minutes later so why dwell on what is it worth compared to what I will put in it? No I am not going to put $10,000 in a boat thats only worth $1,000 but that is not the case with either of these. Worst case scenario considering what I can get the parts for, the Chaparral will have $5500 at most in it when complete and that will include a new engine and all new interior. I can gurantee there are no boats anywhere remotely close to me for $5500 that will be in the condition the Chap will be when we are done, I have looked.

I also support iboats. Our seats will come from iboats. Our carpet from iboats. Vinyl to redo the interior from iboats. all marine parts I buy that are available at iboats are again YES, purchased from iboats. All items needed to maintenance whether mechanical or just simply cleaning supplies for all our boats come from iboats. I guess I could take the advice and get rid of both boats, then find another, join another forum, get everything from someone other than iboats. Nah, I think I will keep the boats. I love the service from iboats and I will continue to use them. If it cost me $6,000 on each of these boats then I will know I sipported iboats because everything I use that they carry will be purchased from them.

We have a pontoon. My dad had a deckboat. Neither of these do what my Maxum with the Force engine will do and the deckboat has a 115hp Johnson. The deckboat was inspected before it was purchased for $4,000. Within 2 months of purchase the transom had to be replaced. We did this in 2 days with a total of about 7 hours in the whole job. Every boat requires maintenance. We have very few problems with ours because we do preventive maintenance before every trip in addition to regular maintenance. It would not surprise me if we have spent more on our boats for maintenance in the past 2 years than what it will take to restore the Chaparral.

Our boats are family projects. Everyone in the family enjoys rebuilding them. How many others here restore a boat with the assistance of the wife and kids? Yes I get stuck with the fiberglass part but other than that I cant keep the wife and kids away to save my life. That type of family quality time does not come with a "ready-for-the-lake" boat.

 

[trendsetter240]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

You asked for opinions I gave you mine. I don't work for iboats. I believe you can get a better boat for less time and money invested. Your choice.

If it's about doing a family project then sure..have at it. You will have a great boat at the end and many memories to cherish of the family working on the boat.

If you want to spend your spring and summer boating, I stand by my original comment that you'd be better off selling what you've got and looking for a new pontoon or deck boat.


Cheers~!

 

[roscottjr]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Spring and Summer will be spent on the lake. Did I forget to mention 1 of these 2 boats we currently use? So it doenst make no difference there either. You are in Canada, I am in Ga. I have no doughts there are boats out there that would cost less and require less time, but I have yet to see any around here. Most places around haul grad all the cheaper boats and part them out before anyone every see them. There is one place that actually looks like a boat dealer because of all the boats. Only difference between him and the dealer is his boats have no interior or drive components, just the hull. We spent over a year looking for a boat and did not find any that we felt were worth the asking price considering the work they required. We have repaired many boats from just the deck to complete deck/stringer/and transom so the knowledge is there.

I appreciate the advice and see your point as well. However, I was asking for advice concerning the 2 boats I have, not any other option I could have. Sorry if I wasnt clear in my original post.

 

[roscottjr]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

TexasMark:

Yes I wasnt real thrilled with the Force engine but couldnt turn it down for the price I got it for. I could almost get as much for the engine at a scrap yard as I give for the entire boat motor and trailor. The trailor is in excellent condition.

 

[northernmerc]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

It sounds as if you have a couple of nice projects there to keep you busy for a while. I prefer the I/Os over the outboards, at least in that size range. If the Chapparel has a good hull and you like the lines of the boat, that should give you lots of enjoyment once you complete it.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

I was asking for advice concerning the 2 boats I have, not any other option I could have. Sorry if I wasnt clear in my original post.

Nobody was rude to you..... while you may not choose to take the advice this is a public forum.... use what you can and thankfully disreguard (or better yet remember for later) what you can't......

I have discovered that you can buy SOLID project boats for very cheap.... You may well choose to build one boat or the other and it may be a great outcome for you.... Honestly without pictures and an examination from an experienced person your question is impossible to answer from the other side of the net.... The only things you can get here from your current amount if info are the preferences of people who will never ride in your boat and basic knowledge....

NOW...... While I would replace a rotton hull instead of rebuilding it. If I were to rule out the option of replacing then I would rebuild the hull that best suited me all around. I generally prefer an i/o to an outboard but the layout and quality of the boat could trump the drive choice.

A v8 i/o will have much more power than your 125 but then shopping around could net you a better outboard too. Both have advantages but it's the ones that matter to you that count. Who cares what I like about YOUR boat right?

while looking for a parts boat last summer I found at least 20 solid boats for under $2000 ... of course they all needed something but then I can find something wrong with 90% of every boat I ever looked at.

 

[roscottjr]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Thanks for the info. Also, I have started a restore thread for the Chap. The link is in my signature and there are pics there also.

I have also found other posts on the forums on the issue of Ob versus I/O. Lesson learned, research first then post..lol.. I have found the discussion on OB versus I/O is possibly a never ending debate resulting in simply lots of information on both type. Very helpful information.

Oh and I didnt mean to sound as if I thought someone was being rude. I was just clarifying what I was looking for but got carried away in the explanation. My appologies to anyone who may think I was rude or thought someone was being rude.

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

No worries I too am no stranger to making do with what you can instead of what you want..... I have a build thread of my own linked in my sig.... I look forward to seeing pics of yours

 

[Sean-Nos]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Don't know if this will help.
The right engine for your boat

What's the best engine for your boat? To answer this age-old question, we arranged with Steve Fleming at Mercury Marine and Chuck Thompson at Trophy to borrow three identical 2003 22-ft. Trophy Walkarounds, each powered by a different Mercury Marine engine/drive setup of roughly 135 hp and 200 ft.-lb. of torque.

Sterndrive
Trophy's standard setup for its 2052 Walkaround is the MerCruiser 3.0L. This is an overhead-valve inline Four of 3.0 liters and 135 hp, with two valves per cylinder and a 2-barrel carburetor. It runs happily on 87 octane gasoline. Connected to MerCruiser's equally basic Alpha 1 sterndrive, the engine/drive unit weighs 635 pounds and costs just $6899.

With 85 gal. of gasoline in the tanks, two men and some test gear, our Trophy weighed just over 4400 pounds, ready to go. Thanks to judicious use of the hydraulic trim tabs, we accelerated from idle to 30 mph in 13.5 seconds and repeatedly topped out at precisely 34.7 mph.

At wide-open throttle (WOT) the engine was turning 4800 rpm and gulping down 11.9 gal. of gas per hour (gph). That's 2.92 mpg. At a more relaxed speed of 20 mph, it returned 3.23 mpg to give a cruising range of 274 miles. In our neighborhood, a gallon of 87 octane currently sells for $1.79. We calculate a fuel cost of about 56 cents per mile at 20 mph or about 62 cents per mile at 34.7 mph.

Outboard
Mercury's 135-hp Optimax has the same power rating as the 3.0L sterndrive. A 2-cycle V6 of 2.5 liters, it's fed by Mercury's 2-stage direct fuel injection and runs on 87 octane gasoline. The MSRP on the outboard is $10,615. The basic outboard weighs 431 pounds, a significant 200 pounds less than the 3.0L sterndrive. However, the 2-stroke outboard requires a separate 3-gal. oil tank, different rigging and a reinforced transom. Bottom line, the dry weight for the 2002 Walkaround outboard is virtually identical to that of the 2052 Walkaround sterndrive.

The outboard and sterndrive may both be rated at 135 hp, but the performance is markedly different. The gas sterndrive out-accelerates the Optimax outboard at speeds up to 20 mph. Between 20 and 25 mph, however, the lines on the graph cross and the outboard handily outruns the sterndrive. The 2002 Walkaround is 2.4 seconds quicker to 30 mph and tops out at 42.5 mph. That's nearly 8 mph faster than the sterndrive.

You pay for this performance. At WOT, the Optimax burns 14.2 gph. At the 34.7-mph top speed of the sterndrive, the outboard burns 13.4 gph. Throttle back to a 20-mph cruise, however, and the outboard delivers a comparable 6.5 gph. We calculate a cruising range of 261 miles for the Trophy 2002 and a fuel cost of roughly 58 cents per mile at 20 mph. At 34.7 mph, the outboard fuel costs around 69 cents per mile.

But wait. A 2-cycle engine lubricates its bearings by oil injection. Even something as clean-running as this Optimax 135 still goes through roughly 1.7 gal. of oil for every 85-gal. tank of gas. In our neighborhood, Mercury Marine's Quicksilver 2-Cycle Outboard Oil sells for $15.99 per gallon. This calculates to about 12 cents per mile. We get a total cost for fuel and oil of about 71 cents per mile at 20 mph and 82 cents per mile at 34.7 mph.

Diesel Sterndrive
Cummins and MerCruiser have a new joint venture building small diesels for pleasure boats. We tried a 1.7-liter turbocharged inline Four rated at 120 hp and 195 ft.-lb. of torque. Equipped with the same Alpha 1 lower unit as the MerCruiser 3.0L gas sterndrive, the engine/drive package costs $12,000.

The diesel is slower in acceleration than the gas sterndrive and outboard in every speed range. Surprisingly, the diesel makes it to the same top speed as the 3.0L sterndrive.

The diesel is significantly quieter than the 3.0L sterndrive at every speed, and is even quieter than the Optimax outboard. The diesel is also more fuel efficient. At a 20-mph cruising speed, the diesel sips just 3.3 gph (6.06 mpg). In this Trophy Walkaround, that's a cruising range of 515 miles at 20 mph. Even running at WOT, the diesel consumes only 5.8 gph at 34.7 mph (5.98 mpg).

In our neighborhood, diesel fuel is now $1.99, 20 cents more than 87 octane unleaded. At 20 mph, the Cummins/MerCruiser diesel costs about 33 cents per mile to run. At 34.7 mph, it still costs just 34 cents per mile.
Payback
A 135-hp 3.0L sterndrive costs $3716 less than a 135-hp Optimax outboard. At 34.7 mph, it also saves 20 cents per mile in fuel and oil. And it's quieter. The outboard's only advantages are slightly quicker acceleration and a higher top speed.

The 1.7 MS120 diesel is quieter, slower in acceleration, and costs $1385 more than the Optimax and $5101 more than the sterndrive. However, it burns significantly less fuel, compared to the Optimax, and will offset the extra cost in just 2924 miles at 34.7 mph.

The diesel sips half as much fuel as the gas sterndrive, but, at 20 mph, it will take you 22,373 miles to recover the extra initial cost of the diesel engine. At 34.7 mph, it will take 18,719 miles to break even. That's 540 hours of running, which for the average American boater is five summers worth of cruising the lake.

Still, we know which powerplant we'd choose. MerCruiser's brilliant new turbodiesel is quieter, cheaper to run, and offers nearly twice the cruising range of either gas engine. It would lure us out on the water to rack up those pleasure-filled miles till the diesel paid for itself many times over.

2003 SPECIFICATIONS AND PERFORMANCE DATA
OUTBOARD GAS I/O DIESEL I/O GAS
MAKE/MODEL: Trophy 2002 Walkaround MAKE/MODEL: Trophy 2052 Walkaround MAKE/MODEL: Trophy 2052 Walkaround
LENGTH: 21 ft. 7 in. LENGTH: 21 ft. 7 in. LENGTH: 21 ft. 7 in.
BEAM: 8 ft. 1 in. BEAM: 8 ft. 1 in. BEAM: 8 ft. 1 in.
DRAFT (DRIVE UP/DRIVE DOWN): 1 ft. 4 in./2 ft. 9 in. DRAFT (DRIVE UP/DRIVE DOWN): 1 ft. 5 in./2 ft. 9 in. DRAFT (DRIVE UP/DRIVE DOWN): 1 ft. 5 in./2 ft. 9 in.
DRY WEIGHT: 3442 lb. DRY WEIGHT: 3457 lb. DRY WEIGHT: 3439 lb.
ENGINE TYPE/DISPLACEMENT: Mercury Optimax 135, gasoline 2-stroke, direct-injection V6/2.5 liters ENGINE TYPE/DISPLACEMENT: MerCruiser 1.7 MS120, turbocharged diesel inline Four/1.7 liters ENGINE TYPE/DISPLACEMENT: MerCruiser 3.0L, gasoline 4-stroke inline Four/3.0 liters
POWER: 135 hp @ 5500 rpm POWER: 120 hp @ 4400 rpm POWER: 135 hp @ 4800 rpm
DRIVE SYSTEM/PROP: Mercury Outboard/Mercury Black Max 14.5x19x3 DRIVE SYSTEM/PROP: MerCruiser Alpha 1 sterndrive/Black Max 14.5x19x3 DRIVE SYSTEM/PROP: MerCruiser Alpha 1 sterndrive/MMPC 15x17x3
FUEL CAPACITY/RANGE: 85 gal./261 miles FUEL CAPACITY/RANGE: 85 gal./515 miles FUEL CAPACITY/RANGE: 85 gal./274 miles
ENGINE/DRIVE PRICE: $10,615 ENGINE/DRIVE PRICE: $12,000 ENGINE/DRIVE PRICE: $6899
PRICE AS TESTED: $31,391 PRICE AS TESTED: $31,493 PRICE AS TESTED: $25,933
TEST RESULTS
ACCELERATION (mph: sec.): 0-15: 4.5; 0-20: 6.6; 0-25: 8.5; 0-30: 11.1 ACCELERATION (mph: sec.): 0-15: 4.9; 0-20: 7.6; 0-25: 11.0; 0-30: 15.5 ACCELERATION (mph: sec.): 0-15: 4.2; 0-20: 6.3; 0-25: 9.0; 0-30: 13.5
TOP SPEED: 42.5 mph @ 5300 rpm TOP SPEED: 34.7 mph @ 4400 rpm TOP SPEED: 34.7 mph @ 4800 rpm
SOUND LEVEL (Cruise/WOT) (dBA): 92/96 SOUND LEVEL (Cruise/WOT) (dBA): 82/83 SOUND LEVEL (Cruise/WOT) (dBA): 87/94
FUEL CONSUMPTION (Idle/Cruise/WOT) (gph @ mph): 0.3 @ idle/6.5 @ 20/13.4 @ 34.7/14.2 @ 42.5 FUEL CONSUMPTION (Idle/Cruise/WOT) (gph @ mph): 0.2 @ idle/3.3 @ 20/5.8 @ 34.7 FUEL CONSUMPTION (Idle/Cruise/WOT) (gph @ mph): 0.9 @ idle/6.2 @ 20/11.9 @ 34.7

 

[Texasmark]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

RO, when you get negative answers you are probably being advised by folks who have had bad experiences (as I did) in a restoration. There is always a big ticket item or two that you weren't aware of initially. It is usually discovered half way through the project so it doesn't make sense to abandon the project so you are stuck and usually out the extra bucks, or get into something you can't handle.

Some folks on here have been successful with their restorations and that was years ago and they are still enjoying their restored rig. Some are utterly amazing when you look at the then and now pics of what they have done.

Chin up man.

Mark

 

[northernmerc]

Re: I/O vs Outboard, which should I choose

Sean-Nos, that's an extremely interesting comparison. But it really doesn't have any big surprises. Of course the OB will have a higher top speed than the I/O options. To put a 4 cyl gas I/O in a boat that size makes no sense, at least not to me.

Putting a V6 I/O (or even a V8) in that boat would make for a much better comparison, and it still likely would cost less than the outboard to buy and operate.

The diesel does sound interesting except for two concerns. It could feel very underpowered for pulling up skiers. Diesels also can prove troublesome and much more expensive to maintain and repair than gas engines. Especially a small displacement diesel like the one in the test would raise red flags. One can quickly lose any fuel savings on repair costs. We owned a VW diesel and a Toyota diesel. On the days when they ran well, we liked them fine. But long term cost of ownership was very high because of repair costs.