I screwed up!!

[Steve302]

Hey guys.

So last fall I had my local marina split my bravo one outdrive to send the lower out to have a new skeg welded on. it came back about 2 weeks ago looking amazing and the weather was perfect for going out in the boat but when i asked my marina to put it back together they told me they were to busy and that I would need to wait a week or two.

Well I consider myself above average when it comes to working on my own stuff so I decided to take it home and put it together myself. asked the marina for a run down on how to do it and he gave me a very loose version of it and said all the parts you need will be in the small box of parts we left in your boat. So I borrowed a service manual and off I went. I installed every part in the box exacty how it is supposed to be and referenced an online service manual to make sure each part i was supplied was put in the right way.

Well I got it bolted together filled the outdrive with high performance oil and started it on the muffs in the drive way. and everything sounded great so myself and a buddy took it to the ramp and launched it and after idling out for a few minutes I accelerated and when I did the was a whining coming from the back of the boat that was getting louder and louder so I idled back in and it was whining the whole time it was in gear but when i put it in neutral the whining would go away.

I put the boat back on the trailer and noticed the oil in my overflow was higher then when i left so at this point im sure my outdrive has taken on water.

I got home drained the oil which was a much lighter shade of green and had a lot of metal particles in it. so much that if you have ever seen a green metal flake paint get poured into a can it looked about the same.

once my oil was drained i seperated my lower unit and there was oil everywhere at which point I realise i must of missed a seal when i put it back together. I pull up an expoded view on the manual and it shows the tab washer, shims and o-ring spacer and i dont see them on my lower unit so i go back to my little box of parts and check and I cant find anything so I assume the marina must of lost the parts so i'm pretty relieved at this point that I can at least use that as some bargaining power lol. Well an hour later i'm still in my garage quite depressed about all this and i'm cleaning up and in the box the lower unit came back from the welder in I see a rag all wrapped up in tape so I grab it and in there is the missing tab washer, shims, and o-ring spacer that seals the driveshaft bellows. so now I understand why my lower unit filled up with water.

Obviously when the marinas mechanic seperated my outdrive he did not remove these parts which are not held on to the lower unit by anything so i'm assuming when the welder put it on his stand up side down to re-weld my skeg the o-ring spacer, shims and tab washer fell off and landed on the ground so when he sent the unit back he wrapped them in a rag and taped them around the prop shaft which when I went to pick up the lower unit the guy for some reason pulled them off the prop shaft and threw them into the bottom of the box so i assuming that it was just a rag to protect my shaft as it really did not look like there was any parts wrapped in there. had he not removed it from the shaft i may of noticed the parts when I removed it.

Question what kind of damage have i most likely done and if this happened to you would you expect the marina to take some responsibility for not removing the parts and putting them in the small parts box?

I understand it is my fault for being impatient and that when i attempted to to do it myself it was at my own risk but the weather was perfect all week and I was itching to get out. and i'm not looking to have it al payed for i'm thinking maybe I pay parts and he takes care of labour and we cal it a learning experience for both of us because when i spoke to the mechanic and told him what happened he ever said "maybe I should of removed them" I have not brought anything to the owners attention I just brought him my boat and lower unit and told him to fix it either way and we'll talk about money when its done.

Sorry this was so long winded haha thanks for any advise

 

[Eric 3.7LX Alpha 1]

Re: I screwed up!!

I am not knowledgeable enough to guide you with the possible damage, but in my opinion your S.O.L. as far as going after the marina for the parts being in the wrong place. When you took the drive home you took responsibility for assembling it correctly and ensuring all the parts were there and installed in the correct order.

Even if there was a part missing, it was your responsibility to realize it and speak to the marina before assembly.
If he does help you out it's out of his good nature.

That's just my opinion, good luck!!

 

[Don S]

Re: I screwed up!!

++++1 above ^^^^^^^^^^

Not their problem at all.

As for what all is damaged will take a complete disassemble and inspection to determine.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

I would think it is clear by the title of this thread that I take responsibility for the fact that I put it together incorrectly however I do feel that the marina dropped the ball by sending the outdrive away without first removing parts that could easily fall off the unit and get lost in translation. basically I just wanted to hear from the PROFESSIONALS on what damage I could of have caused.

oil in lower portion came out light green when i drained it and in upper gear case came out a nice dark green like when i put it in the drive and assuming that water is heavier then oil i'm hoping the water stayed in the lower as it is the cheaper of the two to replace. when in neutral it made no unusual noises only when shifted into forward or reverse would it make a sound.

Not looking to get flamed for my mistake as I have been hard enough on myself over all of this. I've been boating for 27 years. i'm not some first year rookie making dumb mistakes. It was a brief moment of having two buddies around when i was putting it together and I got distracted and missed a step.

 

[matt167]

Re: I screwed up!!

Uh, actually Don is a Professional.. None of us have X ray vision thru the internet into your lower unit. You may have gotten lucky and only need a seal or 2 and some bearings, but everything may be wiped out.. Need to disassemble to figure it out.

If the Marina lost parts, they would be accountable for loosing the parts BUT it became your responsibility to find out what parts were missing and report to them to obtain new parts, just as they would have done if they did the repair. At this point you may get your missing parts if you try hard enough but they will never cover your failed self repair.

 

[Oshkosh1]

Re: I screwed up!!

basically I just wanted to hear from the PROFESSIONALS on what damage I could of have caused.

The "professionals" will need to tear it apart in order to give you a "professional" diagnosis. You could have done little or grave damage to the upper/lower, or both...no one here (not even THE professional) can give you the answer you're looking for. Any answer here will be a speculative diagnosis at best.

Suffice it to say at this point that the metallic green goo which poured out is NOT a good sign under any circumstance.

Tear it apart yourself or take it back to the original mechanic...

 

[gm280]

Re: I screwed up!!

I too have to ask for some pictures of everything involved. Did you at least see where the metal fillings were coming from. I mean you stated that it looked like green metal flake paint, so there should be evidence of fresh shaved metal parts somewhere. Take the pictures and repost...

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: I screwed up!!

I had the same issue with water ingress to the outdrive, though from a different source. I had the same series of events occur with the whining and noises you speak of. It happened the first time I put my boat in the water for more than a day. Now I always pressure test my drive before I fill it with gear oil.

My outdrive actually blew up, I didn't make it back, had to call for a tow. I took my old drive apart to find many damaged parts. I weighed the cost of rebuilding it myself vs. replacing it. In the end, it was cheaper for me to replace it.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

Ok well i mean no disrespect to anyone by posting I was basically hoping someone had encountered this or something similiar and could give me a speculative answer. not holding anyone to anything here.

The goo came from the lower drain on the sterndrive and when i seperated them the oil coming out of the ports on the upper was dark green so i'm hoping that water never went up. I'm curious how the oil moves around in the outdrive and how likely that water would of made its way up. when I took the upper vent screw out to drain the outdrive the litte bit of oil that came out was dark green with no filings from the few drops I could see.

There is not much to take pictures of as I did not dissassemble it past seperating the two halves of the outdrive.

The boat and lower unit are at the marina to be repaired and I have asked them to go over and clean the top as well as the bottom to make sure but they have had it over a week and have not worked on it so i figured I would try to pick the more experienced brains of Iboats to maybe get some idea of how much this may cost me and what not.

I'm also not looking the stick it to the marina and fight with them because up until now I have had a great relationship with them. i'm just not overly impressed with how they have handled this. I payed them good money to repair and reinstall my drive and the only reason i did it mysef was because they told me 2 weeks. AlsoI dropped it off last saturday and was told they would dissassemble monday. i called wednesday and they had not touched it but said they were doing it that day. I called friday and they had not touched it. At what point should I say either do it or give it back?

I would not have a business left if this is the way I conducted our operation. where I am from if you say you will do something, you do it. I would have no complaint if they were straight forward and said we just dont have time. I would just take it somewhere else and probably have my boat back in action by now. I'm not worried about the money i've come to terms with the fact that it was probably the most expensive 5 minutes ive ever spent on the river lol. I just want to be up and going again because this is Canada and we have a short season.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

I had the same issue with water ingress to the outdrive, though from a different source. I had the same series of events occur with the whining and noises you speak of. It happened the first time I put my boat in the water for more than a day. Now I always pressure test my drive before I fill it with gear oil.

My outdrive actually blew up, I didn't make it back, had to call for a tow. I took my old drive apart to find many damaged parts. I weighed the cost of rebuilding it myself vs. replacing it. In the end, it was cheaper for me to replace it.

Thanks for your reply. i'm hoping the damage is not quite as bad and has stayed in the lower half of my drive as I can replace that for just over $1000.

I'm sorry to hear you've had the same problem. could you have claimed it on your insurance?

I'm out of luck with insurance because I caused the issue even though I do have full coverage on my boat with a marine company.

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: I screwed up!!

I don't think so because I caused the issue as well, at least it was my lack of knowledge at the time.

The problem is, you have to imagine all those metal particles floating around as liquid sandpaper, circulating throughout the drive. Even if there are some obviously damaged components, there may be other damage you can't see.

Because you have a Bravo drive, your options may weigh differently than mine did because I have an Alpha 1. I was able to pick up a rebuilt outdrive for $750 on craigslist, I don't think you can get Bravo parts for the same prices as Alpha parts.

 

[achris]

Re: I screwed up!!

I would think it is clear by the title of this thread that I take responsibility for the fact that I put it together incorrectly however I do feel that the marina dropped the ball by sending the outdrive away without first removing parts that could easily fall off the unit and get lost in translation. basically I just wanted to hear from the PROFESSIONALS on what damage I could of have caused.

What sort of professionals are you looking for? Someone to tell you it's all going to be ok, and that the marina mechanics should pay for YOUR mistakes? Not going to happen! The second you walked out their door and did the repair yourself, that's it, YOUR responsibility. Even if there were parts missing from the box, not their problem. You chose to re-assemble, your responsibility to get it right. As you say, you screwed up, and you screwed up by yourself, without their help....

oil in lower portion came out light green when i drained it and in upper gear case came out a nice dark green like when i put it in the drive and assuming that water is heavier then oil i'm hoping the water stayed in the lower as it is the cheaper of the two to replace. when in neutral it made no unusual noises only when shifted into forward or reverse would it make a sound.

This indicates you have NO understanding of how the Bravo drives actually work.... The reason you're not hearing any noise from the lower unit when it's in neutral is because the gear selection is done in the upper and nothing's moving in the lower until forward or reverse is selected. :facepalm:

Not looking to get flamed for my mistake as I have been hard enough on myself over all of this. I've been boating for 27 years. i'm not some first year rookie making dumb mistakes.

Er, yeah, you are!

It was a brief moment of having two buddies around when i was putting it together and I got distracted and missed a step.

More fool you.... Alcohol and mechanicing don't mix... You just found the result...

Ok well i mean no disrespect to anyone by posting I was basically hoping someone had encountered this or something similiar and could give me a speculative answer. not holding anyone to anything here.

Every problem posted on any forum is unique. 2 people can have vastly different problems with exactly the same symptoms. Your problem is your problem, and until you strip that drive, all of it, nobody can tell you what's been damaged.

The goo came from the lower drain on the sterndrive and when i seperated them the oil coming out of the ports on the upper was dark green so i'm hoping that water never went up. I'm curious how the oil moves around in the outdrive and how likely that water would of made its way up. when I took the upper vent screw out to drain the outdrive the litte bit of oil that came out was dark green with no filings from the few drops I could see.

As I already said, you have no idea how the Bravo drive works, and now it appear you can't read. That is VERY well documented in the service manual, remember, the one you borrowed... Might be a good time to actually open it up.

There is not much to take pictures of as I did not dissassemble it past seperating the two halves of the outdrive.

The boat and lower unit are at the marina to be repaired and I have asked them to go over and clean the top as well as the bottom to make sure but they have had it over a week and have not worked on it so i figured I would try to pick the more experienced brains of Iboats to maybe get some idea of how much this may cost me and what not.

I'm also not looking the stick it to the marina and fight with them because up until now I have had a great relationship with them. i'm just not overly impressed with how they have handled this. I payed them good money to repair and reinstall my drive and the only reason i did it mysef was because they told me 2 weeks. AlsoI dropped it off last saturday and was told they would dissassemble monday. i called wednesday and they had not touched it but said they were doing it that day. I called friday and they had not touched it. At what point should I say either do it or give it back?

I would not have a business left if this is the way I conducted our operation. where I am from if you say you will do something, you do it. I would have no complaint if they were straight forward and said we just dont have time. I would just take it somewhere else and probably have my boat back in action by now. I'm not worried about the money i've come to terms with the fact that it was probably the most expensive 5 minutes ive ever spent on the river lol. I just want to be up and going again because this is Canada and we have a short season.

You're asking them to do a rush repair right in the middle of their busiest time... I'd expect very little else... The quickest way you're going to get your boat back together is by putting a complete new drive on.... If it were my business (and yes, I did have a boat business and it was partly due to people like you as to why we ended up selling), every time you called, the job would slip back to the bottom of the list!

Chris.......

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: I screwed up!!

Got to agree somewhat. If you were to bring a drive to me right now, I`d say I`ll call you in a month. If you call me to see if I started it yet, add 2 more weeks.If you were to call a second time, I`d tell you to come pick up your drive and remove it from my shop.
It needs to be torn down to see what was ground away from lack of oil and water mixed in.We cant see inside it.
What parts did you have left over.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

Got to agree somewhat. If you were to bring a drive to me right now, I`d say I`ll call you in a month. If you call me to see if I started it yet, add 2 more weeks.If you were to call a second time, I`d tell you to come pick up your drive and remove it from my shop.
It needs to be torn down to see what was ground away from lack of oil and water mixed in.We cant see inside it.
What parts did you have left over.

Parts 6, 5, and 4 were not in the box therefore I did not find them until after I put it together and did the damage.

I understand after reading my posts how it may come off sounding but I asked when he thought he could get to it and he told me those days. I had not heard from him after 2 days so i called to see what damage I had caused. not to rush him. as i've said I am not blaming anyone but myself.

 

[achris]

Re: I screwed up!!

Those parts missing are likely to allow the drive-shaft to float up and down. Probably good-night to all the bearings on the drive-shaft, possibly the pinion gear and the driven gear too....

Need to pull it apart... (I mean, how many times do we have to say it?)

Chris......

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: I screwed up!!

very critical components. agree with the drive shaft float.Thinkingt the gears force the shaft upwards, that why the spacer is over the bearing.That throws off the lower gear running clearance for the lower gearset.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

What sort of professionals are you looking for? Someone to tell you it's all going to be ok, and that the marina mechanics should pay for YOUR mistakes? Not going to happen! The second you walked out their door and did the repair yourself, that's it, YOUR responsibility. Even if there were parts missing from the box, not their problem. You chose to re-assemble, your responsibility to get it right. As you say, you screwed up, and you screwed up by yourself, without their help....

I'm not looking for anyone to tell me its ok and I take responsibility for the screw up as per the title. otherwise i might of titled it that the marina screwed me which was not the case. I have a good relationship with these guys. I simply wanted opinions from other mechanics what they thought of the missing parts.

This indicates you have NO understanding of how the Bravo drives actually work.... The reason you're not hearing any noise from the lower unit when it's in neutral is because the gear selection is done in the upper and nothing's moving in the lower until forward or reverse is selected. :facepalm:

I totally understand this that is why i'm hopeful that because when it is in neutral it makes no noise that I did not cause any damage to the upper seeing as it is always spinning in some respect yet makes no unusual noise. the only sound i get is when the lower is engaged. I stated the oil in the upper was coming out dark green or not mixed with water. what I wanted to know was if the oil from the lower gets cycled into the upper in a loop or if the oil in each section tends to stay where it is. I am sorry you misunderstood my point. not sure how that means I know absolutely nothing.

Er, yeah, you are!

Well I wish I was perfect but i'm not so i make a mistake from time to time i guess. but as i said I have been boating all of my life.

More fool you.... Alcohol and mechanicing don't mix... You just found the result...

Alcohol was not a factor whatsoever considering I do not drink... Like I said I had to friends in my shop and I got distracted. It happens.

Every problem posted on any forum is unique. 2 people can have vastly different problems with exactly the same symptoms. Your problem is your problem, and until you strip that drive, all of it, nobody can tell you what's been damaged.

i'm not exactly asking for a total breakdown of whats broken lol I just wanted to know based on what little info I can provide if people have had similiar experiences and what the outcome was.

I'm really sorry for not knowing everything about everything but this is my hobby. I am in excavation for my livelyhood and thats where it is unacceptable for me to make mistakes.

As I already said, you have no idea how the Bravo drive works, and now it appear you can't read. That is VERY well documented in the service manual, remember, the one you borrowed... Might be a good time to actually open it up.

As I said I do have a basic understanding of the bravo. unlike the alpha it shifts at the top. Got it thanks. I did read the manual but it provided very little info on mating the two halves together. what i did not see until later was the exploded view of my drive which is how I figured out later I missed some parts.I made a mistake assuming the only parts i needed to worry about were in the box that I was told all of the parts were in. I just wanted to know how likely it would be for the metal that drained from my lower to travel into my upper.

You're asking them to do a rush repair right in the middle of their busiest time... I'd expect very little else... The quickest way you're going to get your boat back together is by putting a complete new drive on.... If it were my business (and yes, I did have a boat business and it was partly due to people like you as to why we ended up selling), every time you called, the job would slip back to the bottom of the list!

I feel perhaps that it is because of people like YOU that is the reason you had to sell your boat business. I asked for nothing in the way of a rush job and never said anything to them other then how long do THEY think it would be before they got to it. He said he would dissassemble it the next day so I guess I expected if he said that then by wednesday I would of heard from him. I have not brought to his attention whether I believe it is partially because his mechanic did not take the drive apart properly nor will I after the response I have gotten on here. I was just curious what others think of the situation. i'm confused as to why it is getting so hostile. perhaps I worded things wrong in which case I guess I made another MISTAKE lol see it happens.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

Those parts missing are likely to allow the drive-shaft to float up and down. Probably good-night to all the bearings on the drive-shaft, possibly the pinion gear and the driven gear too....

Need to pull it apart... (I mean, how many times do we have to say it?)

Chris......

Thanks that was pretty much what i've been looking for. I'm just curious to know and did not know how to upload the exploded view to give you guys a better idea.

I was fairly sure the missing parts would allow it to float and probably take out the gears as it was making a clicking sound after when spun by hand I just wanted to have it confirmed I just did not go about it the right way I guess...

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

very critical components. agree with the drive shaft float.Thinkingt the gears force the shaft upwards, that why the spacer is over the bearing.That throws off the lower gear running clearance for the lower gearset.

I'm assuming if the driveshaft rides up it will take the gears out of sync and probably wreck all of the teeth? i'm sure the bearing are spun out of it judging by the sound it was making I was just not sure if I should be hopeful that perhaps my gears did not get to messed up as I was only out for about 5 minutes.

 

[Steve302]

Re: I screwed up!!

Also to the marine mechanics in the crowd would you or would you not remove parts 6, 5 and 4 prior to sending a lower unit to a welding shop where you can be sure it will be turned upside down in the process of repairing the skeg? again not looking to blame anyone more just curious if that would be standard practice or if you would just somehow wrap tape around the shaft so as to not allow these three parts to slip off the shaft?

P.S I did not damage the skeg. when I bought my new boat last spring. The skeg had damage and the prop had a small ding so i ran it all summer to not lose precious boating time and sent both away to get repaired in the fall.