Ignition Issue

[ptbrauch]

A few weeks ago, I replaced the priming bulb on the fuel line. After that, I stared the motor up just fine. The following weekend we went to take the boat to the lake and it wouldn't start. The starter would turn, but not pop up to engage the motor. I could manually get it to engage but it didn't have enough power to turn it. I assumed my battery was just drawn down.

That pretty much settled something I've been thinking about for a while--getting a second battery. My thought was that I'd run the motor off one and the accessories off the other. This is in anticipation of eventually putting a trolling motor on. So I got a new battery, got both charged up and then then connected the two large cables coming from the motor to the new battery while leaving the smaller, accessory wires connected to the old battery. It didn't occur to me until later that those were connected to the ignition switch.

So after several attempts at starting, it occurred to me that they all needed to be together. After I put all the wires back on the same battery, I got the same result--starter would turn but not engage. I also noticed that the battery now quickly discharges itself. After 4 or 5 tries, its nearly depleated. It also appears that the battery is discharging while just connected and not trying to run anything. This is happening regardless of the battery--one is 2 yrs old and the other was bought 2 days ago.

Also, with everything connected like it was originally, I cannot operate the trim on the motor, but if I disconnect the accessories wires and leave just the motor wire, it works just fine.

Any thoughts on what my problem is?

 

[ezeke]

Re: Ignition Issue

Sounds like you have a short in the accessories.

You would basically need to disconnect them one at a time to find where the drain is. Is the battery in a battery container so that it can't leak voltage to the deck? Is the hull metal?

You could disconnect the battery and check each wire for a closed circuit with your ohmmeter.

If the fully charged battery won't start the motor, check the battery cables and the solenoid plus all of the connections. After attempting to start, there will be heat where there is resistance.

 

[ptbrauch]

Re: Ignition Issue

The batteries are in a plastic battery box on a wooden decked boat (a pontoon boat). So I'm sure I'm not leaking voltage there. A short in the accessories could be a possibility. I'll check them out and see what I can find.

You don't think having the cables connected to different batteries did any damage to anything? I can't think why it would matter, but that's a big fear.

Oh yeah, in case it matters, its a 1998 90 hp Evinrude.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Ignition Issue

You need to determine what is drawing current and running the battery flat.

If its doing it in the space of a few minutes it is a big current and something somewhere is going to getting rather warm if not hot.
Otherwise using a DC ammeter in the battery connection, or a clamp type, systematically check by disconnecting circuits to see what is taking the current,

If you go for a two battery system run the motor, starting and all its ancillaries, from one battery and all the other onboard electrical stuff. lights, stereo, ice-maker, chart plotter, VHF, live well pump, fish finder etc etc from the second battery.

But you then have to have some system for charging it eg VSR from the engine battery, solar panel, wind turbine, generator, charger running on shore power supply etc.

 

[ptbrauch]

Re: Ignition Issue

I think I found the issue. I think it was a short in the radio. I disconnected all the wires from both batteries and charged them both up overnight. Based on the short suggestion, I went the easiest route first. At the back of the radio is a jumble of wires--they're generally connected to something (another wire, etc), but you can see some exposed copper at some of the connections. They're easily accessible from a storage cabinet--which makes them easy to get knocked around. I made sure they were all separated from each other and it started right up.

Now, about my wiring with two batteries. I can easily identify the cables coming from the motor. But all my accessories are tied together to one terminal. To put the motor on one battery and the accessories on another, I'm assuming I need to go through and identify which wire comes from the ignition switch and put that on the same battery with the motor, is that correct? Should anything else be on the same battery with the motor? And what about the negative wire? It appears I have only one negative coming from the accessories whereas I have multiple wires making up my positive terminal. Which battery should that be on, or does it matter?

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Ignition Issue

All the accessories that are to do with the motor, should be on the motor battery. All the stuff to do with the rest of the boat on the other battery via an isolating switch.

Don't forget all circuits should have a fuse which is rated below the current rating of the wiring in that circuit. The idea being that if a fault occurs it is the fuse that blows not the wiring that burns out!

The negative perhaps should be common. ie both battery negatives bonded togther. You'll need to do that if you are charging the second battery from the engine.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Ignition Issue

90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

Be sure the cables area connected to the correct battery post. crossing cables, usually blows the rectifier, and can blow more.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[ptbrauch]

Re: Ignition Issue

I thought I had the issue fixed. Took the boat out last weekend and had everything hooked up on the new battery and had no issues. Before we planned to take it out today, I set about to charge the battery up last night. My charger will auto select the charge rate. When I hooked it up, I thought it seemed like it selected a much higher rate than it should. This morning before we set out, I went ahead and started it up in the driveway with no issues. We head out to the lake, it starts up with no issues. We stop, swim etc for a while and go to try to start it, it was acting like a dead battery. I switch everything over to the other battery, it starts right up.

So now I'm thinking that my issue is back and the 1st battery got ran down. Thinking it might be the radio, I completely disconnect it altogether. Also, once the motor was started, I switched the cables back to the 1st battery. When I did that, the volts were suddenly reading ~15V. So that got me thinking that its probably not the battery. We stop again and this time I disconnect the battery all together while we're stopped. We get ready to go again, same thing; its acting like its dead. And this is on the 2nd battery. I get it started with the other battery and then switch the cables again once started and got the same result--high volts.

So while bouncing between batteries throughout the day, I notice that if I see sparks when connecting the wires, it acts dead. And at times I got a couple of shocks when trying to connect the positive cables without touching the negative at all (that was the first thing I checked when it happened). I also noticed that at times when pressing the trim button, it would sometimes act like a dead battery--all electrical devices (gauges, etc) would shut down but immediately come back to normal when I stopped pressing the button. And when we got home, I put the charger on just the battery (disconnected the cables) and it took no time at all to charge up.

So I think I still have a short somewhere, or a bad part somewhere, I'm just not sure where to look or really even how to troubleshoot it. Any thoughts?