I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU ??

emoney

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Ok, it was time to put the LU back on tonight. Assembled my help, and after wrangling with the shift linkage spacer 1/2 the night, finally got it back together. Luckily, I had a fuel connection issue and a drained battery and I didn't get it to start. Because, I may have a shift issue still. Pulling the muffs off, I pushed on the props, turning it clockwise and while I think I'm in neutral, I get that "clicking" sound. Turning it the opposite way, I get resistance, strong, but it WILL turn counterclockwise. As a matter of fact, it does that in FWD, Rev & Neutral. So, I dropped the LU back down and I can't get the shift linkage to turn at all after say 180 degrees. Am I doing somethin wrong, or is there quite possibly another problem? It ratchets clockwise, resists but does in fact turn the driveshaft when turning the prop counter clockwise. Help again please. I've got my manual, but it's for a '96 model and I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for/at.:confused::facepalm:
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

This book is from March 1997, so it's 2 years newer than mine. I got the shift shaft out, now what? (Probably worse now, lol). I may be in over my head on this one.
 

foodfisher

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Jerry is "just" across alligator alley. (I think) Might be worth a date.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

I've asked him to move over to my side, there's homes right on my street available. He has, selfishly ignored my requests. I would've thought he'd been over to visit at the very least. Some people, right?
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Picture 404.jpgPicture 405.jpg
I'm waiting!!!Got a space reserved with your name on it!!!

Try this,drop the lower,from the rear of the unit.
Install the prop,lift the right blade of the prop up,
turn shift shaft rod to the left,
it should turn the drive shaft as you do this.
That's forward gear!!!
Put the shifter in FORWARD!!
Then try to re-assemble.
When your lifting and you move the prop any other way than up(with th eright blade) it will knock it out of gear.
So only lift up on the right blade of the prop.
Once you get it up inside you might have to align the driveshaft,ONLY lift up on the right side of the prop.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

I've got it apart, but what I'm finding out is that I can't get it (the lower unit) into another gear such as neutral or reverse? My shift linkage is longer that the picture and I can turn it 180 degrees (kind on the half closest to the driveshaft) but I can't manipulate it into either of the other two gears, is this normal? Am I doing something wrong? The manual, that I now know is for the wrong year, instructed me to pull the shift linkage up, which I did, and that there was a plastic shift cam piece down towards the bottom but when I look down there, with the fluid drained, the piece I can see, assuming it's the "shift cam" doesn't look plastic.

When I put the LU back on, I noticed the prop was still doing the same thing (turning the driveshaft to the left, ratcheting to the right) regardless of which position I put the shifter in (forward, neutral or reverse). Something's wrong, right?

And man you don't know how much I wish you weren't 4 hours away because I'd capitalize on your generosity practically immediately. You're help here has already been huge so thanks.

-Eric
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

This is called a "self-serving thread bump", where I come from. Don't tell anybody, however. We'll keep this between you and me.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Well, well, well......I suppose one should expect that when it comes to Emoney, Mr. Murphy and his law tends to work overtime.....sigh.

I believe after some serious detective work, I've come to the bottom of this issue, which in turn will become the beginning of a whole new one. The previous owner was described to me as "an older gentleman"...very common here in Florida. Supposedly, he had all his service work done at one of our local, new-boat service departments, this I've verified during the struggle with the steering cable/tilt tube fiasco. And what I'm surmising is at some point during a lower unit drop/water pump service, the re-insertion of the LU was done incorrectly. FIrst, you should know that this is a 25" shaft motor. For those of you readers that don't know, Mercury used a plastic spacer that the shift shaft coupler sits on in the middle leg and where the two halves of the shift shaft meet. This little round piece of plastic is smaller than the "shelf" it sits on, so if you raise the engine to service the LU, that piece can shift out of position. For example, I used a tiny drop of modeling glue to hold it in place because there was no other way to guarantee that it remained in position. During that last dealership service, I imagine, someone without experience on these older motors, didn't know that there was a plastic spacer in between the 2 shift shafts and especially that it had shifted when they were reinstalling the LU. I'm sure that person probably kept pulling the thing down and looking at the driveshaft and water tube trying to find out what was causing all the resistance. He(she?) eventually FORCED the LU back on, which created a NEW HOLE in the spacer, but allowing the shift shaft to go into the coupler.

Now, this would've meant that the motor did, in fact, shift into all 3 gears (FWD, Rev, Neutral), however I'm sure, because I felt it, that it was a difficult shift, because that little spacer would be binding the lower shaft as it was jammed up in there. I would even venture to say that the owner didn't find this out until on the water, but that's just pure imagination at work. Next, I'd wager that he went back to the dealership complaining of the now difficult shifting. Service department probably inspected the shift cable, found it to be working and knew they had just changed the water pump so their response could've easily been, "Must be a bad lower unit. We can replace that for 'X' (let's estimated $2500.00)". At which point, a somewhat frustrated previous owner had been walking the boat inventory lot while he waited and a smooth salesperson said, "Why not just trade the boat in and get away from all these hassles. You know how those old Force motors are". And, at this point in the story, our PO did just that.

Fast forward several weeks and that leads to me finding the boat advertised, going down to inspect it, and buying it knowing that it had a bad steering cable and was very "tight" when shifting the controls. Since it had a bad cable, I probably subconsciously assumed the control cables were going bad as well. Now, being such an "ounce of prevention" type person, I decided to remove the lower unit and change the fluid and the impeller since we're in Florida and I never believe anyone that says, "It was just changed". Having owned a few boats and removed a few lower units, I expected it to be "snug" for lack of a better word, when I removed it, not knowing that the shift shaft was jammed into instead of through, the spacer. So, when I took the LU off, the pressure of the spacer and the bind it was in caused me to pull the shift shaft out of the shift cam. Which brings me to "now" and the shift cam must have shifted, no pun intended, because I simply can't get the shift shaft to go in far enough or catch anything.

So, it looks as if I'm going to have to remove the LU gear assembly and try and verify my theory hoping that at the least, I can replace the shift cam and put it all back together. I've never even come close to attempting something like this, so I'm banking on you guys to help me through it, as I'm afraid to even ask a pro what this would cost. Gulp.....and thanks for listening to my rant and rather long story.
 

murphylaw

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

After reading your posts, it all sounds all too familar. You say w/ the lower unit remove, the shift shaft turns 180 degrees. The cam at the end of the shift shaft way down low in the lower unit went past its profile and just has to be turned w/ care to line up properly. You say you pulled the shift shaft out. With the shift shaft installed again does it turn freely now all directions??? If so I do believe you will have to completly disassemble the lower unit now. I hope the cam did not fall off the lower end of the shift shaft.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Yeah, I'm starting to believe it's coming apart thx to the cam being MIA when looking down there.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Pics of the unit itself;
shift5.jpg

shift2.jpg

shift4.jpg

shift3.jpg

Above is the shift tube and that circle in the middle is the top of....
this from my manual;
shift1.jpg


How thick is the upper part of the "bracket" that the cam goes in to? If I can figure that much out, I might at least know if that's the back 1/2 of the cam I can see. Or, how much "emptiness" should there be below it? Is the bottom of said "cam holder/bracket thingy" solid and close? I'm asking because not long after going into that hole, I'm hitting something "solid-ish".
 

jerryjerry05

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Drain all the oil and flush with solvent.
Then remove the prop.
Then pick it up and shake it.See if anything moves around.
The cam goes in (from the rear)and then the shift shaft goes in and gets secured.
Just like the pic shows.Where did you get that parts diagram? Service manual?
Think about bringing it over??.
 

foodfisher

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Four hour drive? Hmm, wonder how much time you've invested already? I've had the invite to come over and fish after business is taken care of. Mighty tempting from my point of view. For me not so good. 4-5 days on an old trailer might bring new probs.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Don't think I haven't thought a lot about that, foodfisher. But, i figure it's bad enough I harass him on the forum and occupy 1/2 his time. I'd probably be over-staying my welcome by taking up one of his Saturdays. I don't even have to hook the boat up, just load up the lower unit.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Well, let's all be praying/thinking positive thoughts/sending mojo/crossing our fingers as I've found a guy/shop that says it's a 2-3 hour job which is what Jerry says it should be and he's at $50.00/hr labor rate. I'm dropping off the LU tonight and he "says" he'll be done with it by Saturday. I sure am hoping he's right on all fronts. Otherwise, I'm going to camp outside Jerry's house with a sad look on my face and my LU in my arms. Wish me luck.
 

foodfisher

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Fingers crossed for you.
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Thanks, FF. I still wish it was Jerry.
 

foodfisher

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

It ain't over. yet
 

emoney

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

Shift shaft is now back in it's place, and don't worry, I have screwed something else up, so all is right with the world of emoney. I ordered my new steering cable in 16', whereas the factory used an 18 footer. Sigh...........
 

foodfisher

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Re: I'm back. I really thought I was done. I should've known better. Force 120 LU

In the old funny papers was a cartoon called Andy Capp. Reminds me of the character that walked around with baggy coveralls and a cloud continually raining on him.
 
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