Inboard 351 Windsor - Help on distributor & wiring

[ACon977]

Hey all,

I have an old 1987 Ski Centurion with an inboard DD 351W in it. Before I purchased the boat, it had sat for upwards of 5+ years, although the engine seems to be in decent shape since the engine cover stayed together. I currently have a rebuild thread where I had it gutted to the hull and am now rebuilding it from the stringers up. Now that I am to the point of mounting the engine I have made some attempts to get it running, but so far have been running into issues.

Mainly the person who owned the boat before me decided to do a bunch of modifications to it. But I'm not sure what in all that entails. From what I can see they replaced the OEM carb with a Holley, Point distributor with an HEI system (no markings or SN on it for me to see what kind), new wires and plugs?

My original inspection of the engine involved taking the valve covers off, rotating the crank manually, testing the starter (ended up replacing), and looking into each cylinder with a boroscope to check the piston heads and cylinder walls. I also did a cold leak and compression test, but honestly, that didnt tell me much.

Now that I'm trying to get the engine running everything seems to be rotating fine, but Im curious about my distributor since Scott Danforth pointed out it could be a GM and not a marine version, in addition I am not getting a spark from any of the plugs.

Looking for some assistance on what I should be checking to get this firing up. I've attached what images I have.

 

[ACon977]

Another thing, my starter is turning the crank and belts clockwise, is this correct? or did I buy the wrong starter?

Also, if the crank is going clockwise, does that mean the firing order on the HEI distributor is also clockwise?

 

[buzzleo]

the crank should go clockwise and the distributor/rotor button counter-clockwise. that is what an auto ford 302/351w engine does. Looks like an aftermarket dist/coil system prob designed like the GM HEI system. Need to go on line and see if u can find it. I found u tube videos on how to wire etc. U can also get a spark tester and see the spark for eack plug wire. Look them up on ebay/amazon. If u got spark, fuel and it is timed right it's going to bust off!

 

[ACon977]

the crank should go clockwise and the distributor/rotor button counter-clockwise. that is what an auto ford 302/351w engine does.

Ok well confirmation is certainly helpful. Although I had heard that marine versions sometimes run backwards.. although Im not sure why.

Would it make sense to check the order? I've done it by having a dull rod down the spark plug hole and watch the valves to see what is open/closed on each stroke. Is there a better way?

Looks like an aftermarket dist/coil system prob designed like the GM HEI system. Need to go on line and see if u can find it. I found u tube videos on how to wire etc. U can also get a spark tester and see the spark for eack plug wire. Look them up on ebay/amazon. If u got spark, fuel and it is timed right it's going to bust off!

Ive looked on line for a similar looking model and have come up with some GM HEI, a Ford DUI HEI, etc. since I dont have a SN or label its tough to look up a generic rec cap.

Regarding checking for a spark. Cant I just take the plug out, put the end on the block, and it should spark when the engine is turning over? A spark tester is just a probe with an led that flashes when it receives a pulse through it.

 

[buzzleo]

Regarding checking for a spark. Cant I just take the plug out, put the end on the block, and it should spark when the engine is turning over? A spark tester is just a probe with an led that flashes when it receives a pulse through it.


ya but the spark testers are much easier and you can have the engine running while the tester is on.....they are pretty cheap too!

 

[buzzleo]

Would it make sense to check the order? I've done it by having a dull rod down the spark plug hole and watch the valves to see what is open/closed on each stroke. Is there a better way?

firing order may be on the intake manifold other than that if the piston is coming up and both valves are closed also when going back down then that is the compression and power stroke. check to see that the rotor button is pointing at the right plug wire on the dist. cap. I think u got all that.
if u are not getting any spark then
of course the pick up, the coil or the ignition box/module may be bad can't help on troubleshooting that! Ebay had a whole new system for $129.00 .....

 

[ACon977]

ya but the spark testers are much easier and you can have the engine running while the tester is on.....they are pretty cheap too!

Well being able to run it with the tester in the system is key. I have one on order to be delivered sunday.

 

[ACon977]

firing order may be on the intake manifold other than that if the piston is coming up and both valves are closed also when going back down then that is the compression and power stroke. check to see that the rotor button is pointing at the right plug wire on the dist. cap. I think u got all that..

Yea, I didnt see the firing order on the manifold at all. I will double check on sunday when I get back from travel. I will take the rotor cap off and check that as well.

if u are not getting any spark then of course the pick up, the coil or the ignition box/module may be bad can't help on troubleshooting that! Ebay had a whole new system for $129.00 .....

for sure, Im hoping to run some tests before jumping into a whole new system, especially since this one seems to be pretty new! But if its sat and got wet, or was busted before it ever got neglected, then I'm SOL. but if thats the case Ill be ok with that, just need to know definitively.

 

[ACon977]

One thing I'm noticing is that there is no vacuum advance on my HEI. If I was to replace it... would it make sense to try and implement that? Not sure what port I could hook up to though.

 

[ACon977]

Struggling to find a marine Ford Distributor that's not $480. The one that is on there now has been speculated to be a GM. If my understanding is correct, they all work the same?

This is one I am looking at, its Marine grade (most for $130-140 are not marine rated), and has a 90 day return policy if I end up not needing it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-m12720rd

 

[Scott Danforth]

Now that I'm trying to get the engine running everything seems to be rotating fine, but Im curious about my distributor since Scott Danforth pointed out it could be a GM and not a marine version, in addition I am not getting a spark from any of the plugs.

.

I said look into it. as in call them. you may be fine. all DUI units are GM based, they custom make them for every type of motor out there. the marine units have a different coil cover and the decal. you could simply be missing it. call them

One thing I'm noticing is that there is no vacuum advance on my HEI. If I was to replace it... would it make sense to try and implement that? Not sure what port I could hook up to though.

NO,

vacuum advance is only on a car that is lightly loaded. a boat motor is heavily loaded. there is no vacuum advance on a marine motor. the unit you have may be correct, call DUI

 

[ACon977]

I said look into it. as in call them. you may be fine. all DUI units are GM based, they custom make them for every type of motor out there. the marine units have a different coil cover and the decal. you could simply be missing it. call them

Thanks for the response Scott, I will call them to see what advice they have. My hesitation was due to the fact that I dont have any sort of a label or SN to go off of.

I wasn't sure what information I could find by reading manuals and looking at other forums to check the HEI (since I'm not even sure if that unit is damaged or not).

NO,

vacuum advance is only on a car that is lightly loaded. a boat motor is heavily loaded. there is no vacuum advance on a marine motor. the unit you have may be correct, call DUI

This is very helpful, thank you. I suppose a boat is closer to the full throttle race cars that the non vacuum advance was referenced to. I wont order anything new until I see what we can do with the current one.

My biggest issue is that I dont know if the system was functional before I got it, or the guy did work, but never got it running because he chose the wrong components or wired it wrong. With my limited experience its hard for me to tell whats good/bad and what to check, advice and comments are needed and always appreciated!

 

[Timr71]

Struggling to find a marine Ford Distributor that's not $480. The one that is on there now has been speculated to be a GM. If my understanding is correct, they all work the same?

This is one I am looking at, its Marine grade (most for $130-140 are not marine rated), and has a 90 day return policy if I end up not needing it.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/dui-m12720rd

Hi Austin, LIke Scott said, you may not need anything. And, I'm not an expert on this stuff at all. But I have read what the gear heads over on correctcraftfans.com have used when building Fords. You may recall that my boat has been repowered with a GM. This link is what they tend to us. Also click on the questions and note there a comment from a guy who put this in his '85 Centurion. Maybe this helps you know what your options are if you need to go down this path.

 

[ACon977]

Thanks Timr71 Ill be sure to read those through.

 

[Scott Danforth]

DUI ignition is about 10 times more robust than pertronix.

as I said, call DUI http://performancedistributors.com/ phone number on the upper corner of their screen.

and a boat motor is more like a dump truck motor going up-hill in sand while fully loaded

 

[Timr71]

DUI ignition is about 10 times more robust than pertronix.

Good to know. I'm still learning this stuff. Why do the Ford guys seem to go with the Pertronix stuff? Any idea?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Good to know. I'm still learning this stuff. Why do the Ford guys seem to go with the Pertronix stuff? Any idea?

because they dont look outside the box.... or because Pertronix was one of the first points conversions that you simply dropped in the dizzy vs the points.

 

[ACon977]

Well I was going to give them a call at the airport before our flight this weekend but the customer service rep didnt allow us to check in... not sure why, but we missed our flight and I may get some time on the boat this weekend lol. Kelly has been on the phone with the airlines for the past 2 hours trying to figure something out. So yea. I'll call when i can get my phone back lol

I went out and checked the block and the firing order on the tag is the std 13726548. I still need to check the valves and pistons to confirm that the correct cam and firing order for the 351 block.

The other thing I checked was voltage to the coil. From the previous photos I have the following wiring, If it makes any sense...

below us what hookup goes to the starter and distributor.
Going clockwise from the top right is where the cables go.
TR: The red cables are power from the battery, and hooked to the starter.
LR: Light pink below him is going through the tip block right side.
LL: yellow/black going to starter solenoid. This is what I energize to get the starter to turn over.
TL: white, goes to the transmission? Maybe F, N, R sensor?

top block is what I believe goes to the distributor and carb. Purple and orange.
purple is energized by light pink. And runs to the distributor.
orange runs to the carb on the side.

I checked the voltage going to the purple wire on the coils while cranking the engine. with 12.6V on the battery I was getting 0.5-0.6v at the coils.. Im not a pro, but this seems too low.

 

[Bondo]

I checked the voltage going to the purple wire on the coils while cranking the engine. with 12.6V on the battery I was getting 0.5-0.6v at the coils.. Im not a pro, but this seems too low.

Ayuh,.... Yer right, it should be at or very near battery voltage,.....

 

[ACon977]

Ayuh,.... Yer right, it should be at or very near battery voltage,.....

that's what I was thinking... so it seems like there should be something that is bad between the battery and the distributor/coils. my terminology is bad but what would you guys think it could be?