increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

[metriccrescentwrench]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

.... Is it possible that when the boat was made (by Valco in the 70's) they assumed a lighter 2-stroke would be put on it? Were 4-strokes not as common then? ....

Now we're getting somewhere. I don't know the exact numbers, but that 4 stroke is definitely going to be heavier than a 2 stroke (which is what that boat was designed around). If it were me, I'd carve a plug out of foam, glass it, and bolt it to the transom. Of course not everybody has all those materials just sittin' around waiting for a project.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

I .... ME ...need a picture of that Jon boat out of the water. ....It could be one of those BADLY shaped boats!!

14' long. ......With the bow sloping backward for 6' to 8' of the 14'. It is then a 7' boat in load capacity. I have only seen 2 in real life like that. BOTH WERE SHORT SHAFT 15" high transoms..........


So in reality, they could only carry a 90 pound person with a spinning rod.
Plane easily. Yes. Carry people. NO.

If your boat is that type. Sell it for what you paid. Let someone else pour their hard earned money into it.

Rich

 

[lncoop]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

yeah... nobody had 4 strokes then....
I think H/C was talking about improvising a splash guard of some sort IE like maybe 1x4 lumber on edge forming a 'fence' around the stern


Incoop, on a river in january??? better have a heated wheelhouse if ya wanna impress me LOL

btw it's not just the boat, the float tanks, double jack plates, and whale tail all make a package deal for me..... odd design and 4 bandaids to make it work..... sorry If I offended ya tho

No offense taken. A river in January in Arkansas is nipply, but probably not like a river in Indiana. It really is neat to be out there in winter. Right clothes=toasty regardless of what the old mercury says.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

When I had a great thermostat inside my body. I did not mind -5 degrees in upstate N Y.

Now I can not put on enough clothes, without sweating, while doing some work.

 

[lncoop]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

When I had a great thermostat inside my body. I did not mind -5 degrees in upstate N Y.

Now I can not put on enough clothes, without sweating, while doing some work.

I finally convinced my 67 year old dad that it's a matter of quality (type), not quantity, but I'll not digress further for fear of hijacking bowfishing's thread.

 

[bowfisher8967]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

It is a 15" transom. I weigh 180, the motor weighs 115 or so, and the max capacity for motor gear and people is 750#s. I like the idea of carving out foam and glassing it. Here are some pics.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

With your weight and a normal bow, I am wondering if you are just not placing heavy items up front. You can make that slanted bow area into the battery, anchor, lines, lifejacket, flashlight, rain gear, tackel box, horn, red & green light, spare part tool box, 5 gallon potty pail / bait bucket.
I put the full 6 gallon tank up in the bow area.
You have grooves in the floor to run battery cables & wires for stuff on the bow. Red & green light, horn. I went to chain stores & bought the 18' to 20' battery jumper cables. Then I cut & put the right lugs on them to feed the troller. I bought some heavy duty fork truck plugs to connect the battery cables to the trolling motor leads. Works great & is cheap. From battery companies on the web.
Think about doing the bow storage locker. It MUST be strong enough to support 255# guy standing on it.......load the bow with stuff untill it is just about 3" lower than being level.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

Don't put anything behind the rear seat.

Don't put anything in the rear seat--it should be filled with foam (not for floatation except when you're swamped!)

Nice thing about a 15 is you don't need a battery. If you have a trolling motor, too, use a small battery and put it in the bow.

See about lightening up your fuel--maybe 3 gallons is enough? 3 + 1 gallon spare?

Bottom line is that a 14' jon boat is a 14' jon boat. No dancing allowed.

 

[Mel Taylor]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

I'm waiting for someone to suggest adding foam inside the hull :facepalm:
Yes, some sort of pod or outrigger will help. Also agreed that you need to figure out why it's sitting low to begin with. It's always a possibility that it's just the weight of the engine.
How wide is the boat by the way?

Funny you should say that. I was in one of the local auto parts stores the other day when a guy came in looking for some kind of spray-in foam to make his boat float higher. I overheard the clerk there start to recommend something in a can and I just couldn't keep quiet. I swear, it must have taken me fifteen minutes to convince both the customer and the clerk that adding foam inside the hull would only make the boat float lower in the water.

Many years ago, an acquaintance of mine added a casting deck to the front of his open bow 14' tinnie by spraying it full of roofing foam and putting a piece of plywood on top of that. Same thing. He couldn't understand why that didn't make the front end of the boat float higher than before.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

Love the logic that FOAM can create.

If it floats. Put it in the boat.

TEST THIS. .....................COMPLETELY FILL .................the boat with foam blocks as much as it will hold......................

Did the boat become lighter ? Or is all that foam causing additional weight ? Lowering the boat into the water.

Foam only helps when the boat is filling up with water & in danger of sinking.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

I know--buy 2 16' pontoons from a junked pontoon boat, brace them 5' apart, and weld your 14' jon boat to them.

Or get a bigger (wider, higher sides) boat.

 

[bowfisher8967]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

Ok thanks for the help guys. Although I shifted whatever I could to the bow, its possible that they are not heavy enough to counter the weight of the outboard. I do not have my TM installed yet (or front deck), so maybe that added weight plus the battery will change the float "fulcrum" just enough. When I get the project finished i'l post some pictures. By the way, the two pictures I already posted show my trailer, which I converted from a 3-motorcycle trailer. Picked up the bunk fabric for free from the party planner company i work for in los angeles, and I even stained and clearcoated the bunks! If I end up glassing some foam i'll post pics as well.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

You are NEVER NEVER to buy long skinney boats again.

 

[lncoop]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

You are NEVER NEVER to buy long skinney boats again.

I guess most things are a matter of perspective, but I would never consider a four foot wide john boat skinny. Most fourteen footers are 36 inches wide, and there are many 32 inchers. Now, this is long and skinny. A dedicated tailwater machine. http://www.supremeboats.com/models/l42.html

 

[mrdancer]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

That Supreme boat is interesting because it is a FIBERGLASS drift boat. IOW, by its design function, it will most likely be scraping the bottom of rocky rivers - can't understand why they made it out of fiberglass!?! Aluminum would have been a much better material for durability. Must be the noise thing with fishing, etc..... they are probably designed for fishing long river pools with very mild rapids in between.

To the OP: Pods can provide significant benefits, but they need to be installed correctly. Boats your size tend to be made of pretty thin aluminum and it will take a good aluminum welder to attach the pods without destroying the hull. If you can find a good fabricator/aluminum welder locally, they can often make and install those pods for less than $300. The pods will effectively lengthen the hull, but also will change the handling somewhat - the bow of the boat will ride lower in the water, which can be problematic if you are running into and through higher waves (you will lose some trimming ability, if you have that capability with your current motor).

 

[lncoop]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

That Supreme boat is interesting because it is a FIBERGLASS drift boat. IOW, by its design function, it will most likely be scraping the bottom of rocky rivers - can't understand why they made it out of fiberglass!?! Aluminum would have been a much better material for durability. Must be the noise thing with fishing, etc..... they are probably designed for fishing long river pools with very mild rapids in between.

Precisely. We have two tailwaters (White and Little Red) that fit that description and are full of big trout. That kind of rig is popular with the guides and the guys who trout fish every day. It is typically outfitted with an outboard converted to a jet foot and mounted on a jack plate. A boat and trailer alone in good condition will easily fetch $3k-$4k used. While they're neat toys for the angler with everything and too much money I've never had a use for a boat that expensive that only does one thing. I'd much rather have a fifteen or sixteen foot john with a 25 horse. If the water's too skinny for that I'll be the one wearing the Gore Tex waders in the canoe.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

I lived in AR for a short time and could never figure out why that hull design became popular. We fish rivers here in a similar fashion for much larger trout and use a very different design. Our hulls are wider which allows for running in much shallower water and a great deal more stability, not to mention actually having room to move around in the boat.

There must be reason, but so far no one has been able to explain it to me.

It's not a drift boat though, a drift boat has a completely different design.

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[lncoop]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

I lived in AR for a short time and could never figure out why that hull design became popular. We fish rivers here in a similar fashion for much larger trout and use a very different design. Our hulls are wider which allows for running in much shallower water and a great deal more stability, not to mention actually having room to move around in the boat.

There must be reason, but so far no one has been able to explain it to me.

It's not a drift boat though, a drift boat has a completely different design.

Sorry for the hijack.

Much larger than this? http://arkansasroadstories.com/nature/trout.html

I'm pulling your chain of course, as I'm sure on average the fish out there are indeed bigger, although I do pity you for succumbing to whatever reason seemed compelling enough at the time to leave the Natural State. Drift boats are gaining in popularity here, but due to the fluctuating water levels and natural river characteristics I still find the humble john boat to be the best overall rig for Arkansas tailwaters (and a lot of the other kinds of Arkansas waters). Did you ever make it over to the Buffalo when you were here? Bowfisher, I'm sorry for the continued hijacking. I fear I've had the heaviest hand in instigating it.:redface:

 

[ondarvr]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

Hijack on!

I did make it there, and several other rivers too, didn't get to fish as much as I want'd to though.

The much larger trout comment was because we go for steelhead (same fish, it just migrates to the ocean and back) here, the average size is larger than a freshwater only rainbow, but both can top out in the same range, my largest is a little over 30lbs.

part of this this link is from the river I live on.

http://www.wooldridgeboats.com/catalog/products/alaskan

http://vimeo.com/23961557

I only posted this to show you don't need a small skinny boat to travel in shallow water.

 

[mrdancer]

Re: increasing bouyancy with a given hull size

It's not a drift boat though, a drift boat has a completely different design.

You are correct, it is far from a true drift boat design. However, the rocker on the hull lends itself to drift boat characteristics much more so than a typical hull. The rocker is designed for bouncing/sliding over shallow bottoms.

Btw, I run a 26x60 flat-bottom tunnel hull that will run in four inches of water on plane (for a few hundred feet anyway - but pretty much forever in six inches of water). This is with a 115 4str outboard and a 4-blade SS prop. Yeah, the skeg drags in the sand, but that just tells me to look for deeper water soon.