installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

[bob johnson]

I have a one battery boat now. I am adding a second battery to mainly run a winch I am installing. the boat is a 21 ft center console and the battery is in the middle of the boat under a seat in front of the console. So i have to climb aboard and open the lid to access the battery for charging.
I bought a Guest 2 bank charger 10 amp. I want to install the charger and an extra battery, as well as a battery switch.

I also want to install a plug to the charger in an easy access spot so i dont have to climb into the boat to plug in the battery charger.

so looking for a diagram

I want the switch to be able to use the extra battery in case i needed more UMPH to assure starting the outboard!!!
the extra battery probably wont be used much and i only see it being connected to one device( the winch) when the battery switch, has the batteries seperated.

i use the boat in a bitter cold salt water enviroment for several months.

I have a book titled "The 12 VOLT BIBLE for Boats" and it shows a weird diagram for the onboard charger hooked to an isolator( that also has a wire to the alternator) aand the the isolator is connected to the battery switch, then the switch connected to th batteries.

dont understand the isolater.. and I have an outboard, so dont know how Id connect to the alternator( i assume that diagram is for inboards)

hope to hear from you guys.

I have the boat wired nicely now and a fuse panel so i need to keep the battery where it is now..in the center of the boat


PS: can the BATTERY SWITCH be set off away from the batteries?? like where I can reach while the boat is still on the trailer? or will that be too much of a draw running all those long leads??



thanks

bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

And here it is one more time! Every accessory on the boat, including the engine gets connected to the COM terminal on the switch. The AC power connection for the charger is positioned wherever you can reach it.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

I have seen that, but it wasnt clear to me where I would hook up the chargers connections... I am assuming directly to each battery like the manual says, even though the charger manual doesnt consider the battery switch in its intsructions. I predict that Ill probably seldom use the extra battery for the winch.... was wondering if i should wire the winch through the com port as well.

if yes, then I am assuming the idea would be to run the boat normally with the switch set for the start battery, and when i needed the winch. turn off the motor, switch to batt #2 and use the winch. I had tried to read previous threads, but as is usually the case with me, it seldom seems to be a close match of what i am doing.

the charger is basically for convienence...since i usually charge the boat every week during the winter season anyway...

does the fact that i will be drawing down the start battery much more each weekend than the extra battery....cause me any concern when i go to run the charger???

or does the charger have electronics inside to deal with that since it is a dual bank charger?

my charger is a guest 2611 dual bank 5/5 amps

I am running a 115 johnson 2 stroke.. the big draws will be the winch when used.. the starting motor for the outboard. a hydraulic jack lift plate, and I am thinking of adding high output lights this year...maybe 50 - 100 watts total....both my batterys are deep cycle lots of cold cranking amps and reserve 13" x 7" in size.

my switch is just like the one pictured and says to stop engine before switching off.... I guess that means it isnt the kind that makes connection before breaking connection....right?

one more question if i set up my winch about 9 feet from the battery and the manual says the winch might draw 175 amps at full weight....4500 lbs...would a #2 cable work????

they supply #6 wire, but they are short. I think they assume everything is close.

thanks

bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

I have seen that, but it wasnt clear to me where I would hook up the chargers connections... I am assuming directly to each battery like the manual says, even though the charger manual doesnt consider the battery switch in its intsructions.

Answer: The charger manual doesn't mention the switch because it doesn't matter if you have a switch or not. Wire the charger to each battery.


I predict that Ill probably seldom use the extra battery for the winch.... was wondering if i should wire the winch through the com port as well.

Answer: What type of boat are we talking about that you need a 4500# pull winch???

if yes, then I am assuming the idea would be to run the boat normally with the switch set for the start battery, and when i needed the winch. turn off the motor, switch to batt #2 and use the winch. I had tried to read previous threads, but as is usually the case with me, it seldom seems to be a close match of what i am doing.

Answer: Every purpose where I've posted the diagram is the same. It doesn't matter what is connected to the switch -- it can be a radio, a light, a bilge pump, the engiine or your winch. Whatever position you have the switch in powers EVERYTHING. When BAT 1 is selected, it is being charged by the engine, starts the engine, and powers everything on the COM terminal. Same for BAT 2. Same for BOTH. You save the Starting battery by using BAT 2. Or you save BAT 2 by selecting BAT 1.

the charger is basically for convienence...since i usually charge the boat every week during the winter season anyway...

does the fact that i will be drawing down the start battery much more each weekend than the extra battery....cause me any concern when i go to run the charger???

Anser: The Guest charger is a smart charger -- it knows when to charge and when not to. Doesn't matter how drained a battery is.

or does the charger have electronics inside to deal with that since it is a dual bank charger?

my charger is a guest 2611 dual bank 5/5 amps

I am running a 115 johnson 2 stroke.. the big draws will be the winch when used.. the starting motor for the outboard. a hydraulic jack lift plate, and I am thinking of adding high output lights this year...maybe 50 - 100 watts total....both my batterys are deep cycle lots of cold cranking amps and reserve 13" x 7" in size.

my switch is just like the one pictured and says to stop engine before switching off.... I guess that means it isnt the kind that makes connection before breaking connection....right?

Answer: NO! It doesn't matter what type of switch you have (make before break, or not). You CANNOT turn off the switch with the engine running. Its the same thing as taking the battery out of the boat when you do that. It mucks up the charging system. DON'T DO THAT!

one more question if i set up my winch about 9 feet from the battery and the manual says the winch might draw 175 amps at full weight....4500 lbs...would a #2 cable work????

Anser: Check and "Ampacity Chart"

they supply #6 wire, but they are short. I think they assume everything is close.

thanks

bob

Still interested in what you need the winch for and why the high powered lights? It screws up your night vision if you use them for navigation and it really angers anyone approaching you.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

Still interested in what you need the winch for and why the high powered lights? It screws up your night vision if you use them for navigation and it really angers anyone approaching you.

the boat is used in the winter for waterfowl hunting. I try to not mention that as much, since some people dont like hunting. And as such there is a greater chance people might not respond with help.

But in any case late winter on the salt water running in the dark , you arent blinding anybody... and sometimes the run is up to 7 miles and there are lots of lobster pot bouys still around. Usually when i run up to the spot i want to hunt near, it is still dark and i need to scan the shore...thus the lights.

also since the water is tidal and can be as much as 9 feet some places, you have to be mindfull of the tides fall and occassionaly you get caught not paying attention..and the boat is dry. That is dangerous because if something happens, someone gets hurt, or there is an emergency call from home....you cant leave!! I have thought of adding a winch to pull the boat back to water in those cases where I deem it important to leave right then...

I tried a come along and it worked good...but is a lot of labor over a long period of time to winch a 1500 lbs boat back to water like that.
So i am trying an electric winch now...it is new device, i want to be prepared, so i am adding battery power along with the winch. if all goes right, i wont use the winch at all, and I put it back in my truck when i get home.

IN my searches for info on the chargers and multi batteries, it seems some people argue about how each battery is charged... and also when they are combined how they react to each others capacity at the time.. so I am just trying to pull a little more info.

plus this past winter it got so cold that started was difficult. especially since I think the starter motor wasnt 100%...the combination left me to use my kicker motor to get home one day.

so i figure an extra battery is gonna help...if i get in that situation again..Thge motor starts great now, but i am gonna replace the starter anyway, as insurance. there are few boats out there to tow you home in january in new england...its best to try and take care of yourself


bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

OK - got the hunting bit. I'm an ex-hunter but "ex" due to age and the number of drunken idiots in the field carrying guns who call themselves hunters. You need to understand that just because you have batteries, they are not an inexhaustable supply of energy and an outboard charging system is not sufficient to fully charge or in some cases, top off a partially discharged battery unless you run wide open for hours. Look at it this way. If you ran the winch for one hour and it was drawing 100 amps during that period, an outboard with a 20 amp alternator would need to run wide open for five hours to replace that energy. 100 watt lights draw about 9 amps each so you do have an energy hungry boat. How many hours you are out at a time will restrict what you can operate and for how long. Most group size 27 deep cycle batteries have ratings of about 180 - 200 minutes at a 23 amp draw. Double that draw and time is cut in half. So run the numbers. 200 minutes is a little over 2 hours. Your two lights alone will draw 18 amps/hour and suck the battery dry in 2.5 hours. Any you haven't even run the winch. Hope this is sinking in.

Batteries operating from a switch DO NOT have to be the same size, same capacity. They should be the same type (flooded/maintenance free/etc.) Some batteries require special charging profiles so your on-board charger must be capable of charging that type of battery. The engine charging system monitors SYSTEM voltage, not the voltage of any individual battery (unless you only have one selected). In the BOTH setting the engine charging system looks at the two batteries as one giant battery and both will be charged without harm.

Isoltator: This device merely isolates one battery from another thus preventing whatever accessories connected to the house battery from drawing off the starting battery. The isolator also allows charging current to flow into both batteries so no switch is needed in this system but you cannot start the engine from the house battery nor can you combine the two unless the isolator has a combine feature. In your application you don't want or need one of these.

Dual battery switch: For some reason folks really have a tough time getting their arms around this extremely simple device. It is nothing more than a device that allows you to determine which battery you want to use for any purppose at under any condition. Start battery dead? Switch to BAT 2. House battery dead? Switch to BAT 1. Want to protect the start battery while anchored? Switch to BAT 2. Need extra power for whatever reason, switch to BOTH. Want to kill all power on the boat when docked? Switch to OFF. Want to charge BAT 1 -- select it. Want to charge both batteries at the same time -- select BOTH. Simle as that.

For installation you install the switch wherever you like. The only restriction is length of the interconnecting cables. The longer the run the larger they need to be. ALL cables between the batteries and the switch must be at least as large or larger than the engine battery cables or matched to the highest current draw item on the boat which is likely the winch under full load.. I don't understand why you need to reach the swtich from outside the boat. Before you leave it, switch to OFF. You won't need to use it again until next trip anyway. When you launch, someone needs to be in the boat so set the swtich to whatever position lights your fire and go.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

good read.. if I hook the onboard charger directly to the batteries, then i dont need to reach the switch from outside the boat. i was thinking or thought i sw it written that maybe the charger was also run to the switch....

I am thinking of wiring the winch and extra lights to the second battery...and if I use the lights for 1/2 hour in the morning and maybe 1/2 hour at night...thats a lot... and the winch might be used once an outing if that... and it wont be run more than 15 minutes i guess....

I want to seperate those two big items from my starting battery..... I need to have the starting battery top notch if at all possible....if the second battery can HELP the first fine...but no way do i plan on drawing more juice from the starting battery than i already do


if the second battery goes dead...thats it for the day for the winch and lights.....


my battery up to now has never been below 60 % when i go to recharge it..the way the boat has been rigged.

as for your hunting experiences...truely id rather deal with double the dumb azzzz hunters i encounter, than all the idiots I deal with on the roads who just barely have not killed me so far. Everything in perspective....I pass 1,000 cars a day some days....thats a lot of chances for a headon..if the other guy isnt on the ball

thanks for helping out here so much...

I know the repeat questions can get old

bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

I will hit this one more time. You don't need to wire the lights and winch to the second battery. Wire everything to the COM terminal on the switch. If you wire directly to the battery you defeat the purpose of having the switch. There may be time for example that you actually NEED to power the lights or winch from the start battery. What do you do then?? If they are wired to the switch you simply set it to BAT 1 and away you go.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

ok bear with me.......if i do wire everything to the com on the switch... and I am running from my start battery as i normally would, and I want those extra lights on....if I turn them on.. i am draining from my IMPORTANT battery...no?

now i dont see myself ever running the winch while I am under power....so I could just switch to battery #2 for winching.

unless the idea is to just use battery #1 until it cant crank the motor over...then switch to my back up battery( since they are both dual purpose batteries) and dont mess with the winch any more, because i want to always be able to start the motor to get home.


my whole very specific purpose is the segregate my libility from the extra lights and winch from the main battery!!!!

I know the jack plate, the power Tilt and trim ,the bilge pumps( 2 at 1000 gph),and starting the motor can consume up to 40% of my battery ( based on reading the charger when i recharge)

so I know my alternator will never keep up...now adding two large power supply eaters has me wanting to keep that away from ONE of the batteries.

feeding everything to the com terminal seems to lead me down the path i was trying to avoid......even if it gives me MORE vaersatility


bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

NO -- NO -- NO! Start the engine using whatever switch position you like. It doesn't make a bit of difference which one you use. If BAT 1 is your preferred start battery, select it! You have now discharged it a bit during starting did you not?? Then switch to BOTH while underway and using the lights. Or switch to BAT 2 and use the lights. On BAT 2 the engine continues to charge BAT 2 replacing as much of the juice as it can (up to max alternator output). You are way over thinking this. Consider it like this: You have two buckets of water. One is clean drinking water. The other is sewer water. You want to douse the campfire. Which bucket will you use? Do not you want to save the clean water? Now if the campfire jumped out of the fire ring, you would likely want to use BOTH not??? Your boat is the same way. Select which bucket of electricity you want to use. If the engine is running at the time the alternator is also charging that battery.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

ok, then you have instilled some confidence, in this worrisome mind of mine, because i dont want to get stuck in the winter out on the water. Now my only concern is if this specific GUEST battery switch is the kind you can switch while the motor is running. Guest model #211A series

says on front at top: fully egaged at detents

and at bottom: Stop engine before switching off

its about 5 years old but i have never used it before

is this a switch that can be changed while the motor is running??

if not ill just go buy the right one.

bob

 

[Silvertip]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

I've not been able to determine if the 211A is a "make-before-break" style switch. This type of switch is REQUIRED if you intend to make switch changes with the engine running. Make-before-break means that the new setting occurs before the existing setting is broken. If the switch is not that design, that means the existing connection could be broken before making the new connection. That would leave the charging system momentarily disconnected while switch changes occur. If that happens for an instant, the charging system can be damaged. HOWEVER, if you get your head around this switching thing, you DO NOT need to change settings with the engine running. Why not just start the engine with the switch on BOTH and head to your hunting spot. Both batteries will be charged on the way. The alternator on the engine will keep up with the lights. When you shut the engine off, switch to BAT 2. This saves BAT 1 which is the starting battery. When you get ready to leave, switch back to BOTH and go. Even if BAT 2 was fairly deeply discharged, putting BAT 1 on-line with it will start the engine. You then charge both batteries on the way back. So you see -- use whatever bucket(s) of electricity you want. Whatever position you set the switch to is like "removing" the other battery. If it's removed it can't be discharged. If it's selected, it will be used and will be charged when the engine is runningl. Earlier in one of your psots you said you needed to crank the engine longer. The solution to that is get it tuned so you don't have to run a battery dead trying to start it. If you are really paranoid about a dead battery, carry a good jump start box. I've done as much damage here as I can. Good hunting.

 

[bob johnson]

Re: installing charger, switch , extra battery and plug.. need diagram

thanks for all the advice...i should be good, and realize I might have been over worried about the power supply drawn from my new toys.....I think I helped bump you over 20,000 though...dont know if that is good or bad ha ha ha.....I love it out there in the winter....its nice when there are no issues.......when you set things up right you get to enjoy all your expenses and time off!!

the gerry riggers just cause heartache to themselves...

take care

bob