Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

[BillP]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

I been outboarding 45 yrs and owned a many 2 strokes...and includes one 4 stroke since 11/96. My answer is no I will not buy another 4 stroke. For my use they just are not "better" for the extra cost, maintenance and complexity. <br /><br />"High resale" of 4 strokes makes me grin. My 96 Mariner 50 4 stroke has retained LESS percent of original purchase price than a Mariner 50 2 stroke of same vintage...according to nada. I think this was some of the 4 stroke hype that reeled me in in 96. 6 years of running this Mariner has been no less maintenance (or hassle) than my 2 strokes. It smokes less and burns less fuel...for $2000 more...what a deal!<br /><br />bp

 

[Hooty]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Anybody have any idea how many 2 stroke, carbed engines there are in the US? Quite a few? That's why it'll be a looong time before they're banned.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty

 

[radsrh]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

The max Hp for my boat is 90.

 

[Don Edge]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

I would have to go with Mercury 4 strokes. <br /><br />Mercury may not make the 4 stroke powerheads but they make the best lower units. With the Yamaha Mill and the Merc drive train you have one hell of a combo, Strong and Fast. I used to like the Chapter 11 Boys but they went down the tube ah.<br /><br />O bviously<br />M ercury<br />C onquered

 

[Forktail]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Hi BillP. I'd take those NADA resales with a grain of salt, especially on outboards. I've never seen them actually reflect exactly what consumers pay for things. I don't believe NADA uses market demand with their used pricing.<br /> <br />Your $2000 difference in original purchase price between the Mariner 50 4-stroke and 2-stroke seems large. Regardless, I did notice that NADA gave your 50 Mariner 4-stroke about a 15% better resale (average retail). This does indicate that the 4-stroke is higher in value, even after 7 years.<br /><br />Used 2-strokes are a dime a dozen here, and can be found on any dealer's rack. Prices are low and owners are lucky if they can get rid of them. Used 4-strokes are a different story. Hard to find, and people are paying top dollar. When side by side as used motors, the 4-strokes are selling, and selling for more.<br /><br />Without being argumentative, I fail to see how maintenance and complexity is a strike against the 4-stroke.<br /><br />Yes, the 4-strokes are more complex (although some will argue that the direct injection 2-strokes are more complex). But this by no means indicates that 4-strokes are less reliable or durable. Over the years, nothing has proved this. In fact my experience has been that the 4-strokes, however complex, require less repairs, are more reliable, and run for more hours during their life. I attribute this to the pressurized lubrication system. For my business, the higher initial expense is outweighed. This is especially true for the smaller 4-strokes. I have some original Yamaha 9.9 4's that continue to provide flawless service, while the 2-strokes become troublesome and worn out.<br /><br />What troubles did you have with your Mariner 4? Just curious.

 

[BillP]

Re: Interim 4/2 Str. Survey - Results

Forktail,<br />I believe the list price on a 50 2s Mariner in 96 was $3600...my memory may be wrong but I priced the 2 and 4 stroke at the same time. I paid the list price of $5600 for my Mariner in 11/96. There was no dealing on these back then. They are still $5600 today so the prices are actually dropping (as in not staying up with inflation). <br /><br />Unless I am having a senior moment the prices wash as the 2 stroke retained 15% more resale from original list price. I also realize this is only one case and only suggests that a mariner 50 4s doesn't have the better resale from its sister 2s.<br /><br />The 2 stroke lost 44% of list price (3600/2000)<br />The 4 stroke lost 59% of list price (5600/2280)<br /><br />For nada values...the dealers and loan institutions use them in Florida. I just tried to trade my pontoon boat with 50 mariner a few weeks ago. The dealer pulled out the black nada book. There are other books too but it seems the nada is now leading the pack. <br /><br />The Mariner has given no running problems...but neither have the 2 strokes I've owned. The main (actually ONLY) reason I bought the 4 stroke was to please my wife who didn't like the 2 stroke fumes while trolling. I found it doesn't matter on a pontoon boat anyway. <br /><br />I still have issues with 4 strokes adjusting valves, worrying about a timing belt and crankcase oil checking and changing. My pontoon boat hangs in a boathouse and getting to the motor is difficult at best. My two strokes only need a "tuner" through the carbs to decarb. I am lazy and the extra attention that 4 strokes need, in additional to the extra cost doesn't comfort me. Fuel range (not cost saving) is the only reason I would buy a 4 stroke. Granted, most new 2 strokes have a computerized fuel system that can go down, but the 4s have that too, along with the extra valve train parts. <br /><br />If you look around in Florida, the commercial guys, guides, tour types, rental boats, etc. you see waaaay more 2 stokes on those boats...the numbers are not even close and these businesses change out motors every year or so. I have not asked any why but suppose it is less hassle or less cost. <br /><br />On the flip side, I talked to a Fl Marine Patrol yesterday...he had a 135merc optimax 2 stroke. I asked how how he liked it. His reply was "Its pretty bad when the dealer tells you to live with the problems" (no fix).