Iraq bites the hand that frees

[rodbolt]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

but like you I was there, where the hands of the war gods sends us is not up to us.
as a petty offiocer in the USN I went were the order sent me.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

"LMAO, do some research.

MBTs: 1245+ T-54/55, Chinese T-59, T-62,T-72, Chieftain Mk3/5, Mk-47/48, M-60A1

Fighter Bomber Aircraft: 9 squadrons -- 60 F-4D/E, 20 Su-24, 60 F-5E/F"

Ya forgot some stats there while you were laughing. Like, a better organized and fully functional battle hardened military. Nuclear capability. Chem capability. Plus, all the great guerilla tactics that the region is well known for: IEDs, suicide bombers, etc. Yeah, those are small details I am sure, but they help to make what would be an entirely different battle environment than the glorified FTX's the Iraq incursions have been. We would still be victorious of course, but we would have a lot more human sized stainless steel boxes to offload. But hey, why not. God forbid we should learn anything and actually do any decent planning, we'll just keep stayin' that course....

 

[crunch]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Fighter Bomber Aircraft: 9 squadrons -- 60 F-4D/E, 20 Su-24, 60 F-5E/F"

What, 2 hrs. for air superiority?

MBTs: 1245+ T-54/55, Chinese T-59, T-62,T-72, Chieftain Mk3/5, Mk-47/48, M-60A1

There is not a tank there that can do more than scratch the paint on an Abrams.

Take it from there... who is talking about taking ground? The smart way to fight a war these days is to take tech and Infrastructure.... AKA, bomb them back to their cultural level.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

"LMAO, do some research.

MBTs: 1245+ T-54/55, Chinese T-59, T-62,T-72, Chieftain Mk3/5, Mk-47/48, M-60A1

Fighter Bomber Aircraft: 9 squadrons -- 60 F-4D/E, 20 Su-24, 60 F-5E/F"

Ya forgot some stats there while you were laughing. Like, a better organized and fully functional battle hardened military. Nuclear capability. Chem capability. Plus, all the great guerilla tactics that the region is well known for: IEDs, suicide bombers, etc. Yeah, those are small details I am sure, but they help to make what would be an entirely different battle environment than the glorified FTX's the Iraq incursions have been. We would still be victorious of course, but we would have a lot more human sized stainless steel boxes to offload. But hey, why not. God forbid we should learn anything and actually do any decent planning, we'll just keep stayin' that course....

I'm not sure about batttle hardened Jason, maybe 20 years ago they were. Have they been fighting since the war in the 80's?

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Custom, a military engagement without taking ground is just a bunch of ammo being burned.

Eric, I know you know that the Iranian military, while certainly no U.S. or China is still several notches above Iraq. You really think all that leadership and ability simply went away after the 80's? If that is true, then clearly we must have lost all ability after Vietnam. That is the biggest problem with the current mindset of arrogance. It isn't enough that the war in Iraq is showing us that there are more than one way to fight war, do we have to go against Iran and learn that lesson again? This is not SIMNET, this is the real world. We are dealing with a culture of people that are far more committed to their cause than we can even imagine, and they have been defending their cause far longer than we have been a country. That means we need to step back and take a realistic look at the objective and work towards an implemented plan that achieves that objective.

Do you really think that is happening right now, and do you really think just doing the same ol' thing with Iran is the way to go? You'll notice I never say pull out or cut and run. I simply say that the current strategy needs to be reviewed, changed in accordance to realistic objectives, and implemented. If that means pull out, or strategic nuclear bombing, or whatever, so be it. Anything other than the current strategy, which is not working at all. This is all just basic battle planning here, not rocket science...

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Jason, I agree with what you say, I only questioned the word "hardened", I don't think they are. Just my opinion.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Eric, thats cool. They probably are not as hard as they used to be, I just caution against under-estimating anyone, especially over there. Too much of that has already gone on...

 

[crunch]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Custom, a military engagement without taking ground is just a bunch of ammo being burned.

WWII thinking, what the H would we want with ground in Iran?... condo's?

Take out the infrastructure and the military tech and you can forget about them for a decade. If they haven't gotten smart by then?... do it again.

Maybe take a few oil fields just to pay for the bother.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Jason, I absolutly agree, NEVER under esitmate.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

rodbolt, I note your question to crunch went unanswered, I wonder why? I really don't, but maybe he can sign up and go fight now, he is so anxious for this war to go forward. Surprized he did not sign up after 9/11.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Custom, a military engagement without taking ground is just a bunch of ammo being burned.

WWII thinking, what the H would we want with ground in Iran?... condo's?

Take out the infrastructure and the military tech and you can forget about them for a decade. If they haven't gotten smart by then?... do it again.

Maybe take a few oil fields just to pay for the bother.

Sounds like the "Rummy & Duhme" plan....
That's going well......JK

 

[Link]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

A bunch of Armchair Generals... Might as well be NFL wanta bees

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

I'm tyin to fyne n intellengenct tread. kan annyone help mi finn one??? sury abuot tha 4th grad spilng.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Whats up with the squadron of F-4s? That's an old outdated design that our recently retired F-14 was designed to replace!!

That would be a pea shoot with the F-16, 18 or new 22! LOL Yea, lets go up against that. Throw in a few Mig 15's too! LOL

The Su-24 and F-5 are all old designs with our F-18 being superior in all aspects, including pilot training.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Their air power is irrelevant. We would eliminate that in 2 minutes....Fighting in the streets would be a bit different...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

whats funny is custombycrunch still aint got the facts.
we got lied to and the rummy and dummy approach not only failed it failed miserably and cost the lives of upwards of 500,000 more innocents.
but you and your god are aligned with shrubs god and good thing.
good thing my god will roast shrub someday.
but thats a matter of the theolegins.
shrub was warned and the naysayers got fired, now the latest reports seem to say he was wrong,wrong wrong for almost 4 years. about the amount of time I have posted on DC saying its wrong wrong wrong, cannot and will not ever work.
biggest 2 differences tween me and my President is I showed up for each muster and my daddy could not pay my way out.

but monkey boy will not accept fact and we will have 2 more years of stay the course then we will blame the Iraqis for failing.
mark my words.

 

[crunch]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

Their air power is irrelevant. We would eliminate that in 2 minutes....Fighting in the streets would be a bit different...

What fighting on the streets?.... deterrence and tech abatement is the name of the game... again, why would we want real estate?

 

[crunch]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

whats funny is custombycrunch still aint got the facts.
we got lied to and the rummy and dummy approach not only failed it failed miserably and cost the lives of upwards of 500,000 more innocents.
but you and your god are aligned with shrubs god and good thing.
good thing my god will roast shrub someday.
but thats a matter of the theolegins.
shrub was warned and the naysayers got fired, now the latest reports seem to say he was wrong,wrong wrong for almost 4 years. about the amount of time I have posted on DC saying its wrong wrong wrong, cannot and will not ever work.
biggest 2 differences tween me and my President is I showed up for each muster and my daddy could not pay my way out.

but monkey boy will not accept fact and we will have 2 more years of stay the course then we will blame the Iraqis for failing.
mark my words.

They are marked.... wanna point out the facts I got wrong?... or are you just ranting?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

nope custom I am waiting for you to tell us what military unit you served in.
not that it really matters, didnt matter ti shrub.
however for all your killing talk, ya still aint told us who to kill or exactly who we are fighting, yet.
soon we will be just ducking rounds and fighting 10 year olds.
but for 3 years I have given custom many links to the history of how and and why we go6t here. other than custom and a few others calling me names they never ever responded to any historical facts.
fact they still belive we are winning when the actual reports for 3 years is we have been losing and most likly will end up just blaming the stupid Iraqi's, calling it a draw and leaving.
I really dont care which moral high ground custom and Bush take, its not the same as my gods morals.
killing in the name of god is not someting I find in my bible, if you find the passasge please post it so I can reread the book.
but no custom has no clue what we have done,
in fact I bet custom cannot post anything about how the democratically elected govt of Iran fell or why, I also bet he cannot post how long saddam hussein was kept in a CIA safe house in egypt nor how he actually came to power.
better yet maybe Custom can tell us all about how the US tried to depose the Sha of Iran in the 70's and quell his death squads.
until the average illeterate understands why they dont rust nor like the US folks like custom will get good knee jerks.
but I really think maybe custom may have been skert to actually join the US military, however I understand they raised the age limit to 40 years old with waivers if you have a skill. maybe for custom he still can get in on killing some ragheads for christ.

 

[i386]

Re: Iraq bites the hand that frees

we will have 2 more years of stay the course then we will blame the Iraqis for failing. mark my words.

No. The dems will be blamed. mark mine.