Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

[imported_skidooosl]

Is there any reason I would not want to use a deep cycle battery for starting? I wanted a large battery that if needed I would give me quite a bit of cranking time so I found an Energizer 675 CCA deep cycle battery up at Sams Club for $55. I just want to make sure that will not hurt anything.


The outboard is a 86 90hp Evinrude v-4

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Won't hurt anything. But you may want to check into the duel purpose batteries too and go to a larger battery for extended cranking....

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Deep cycle batteries are not recommended (but many people do) use them for starting purposes. Deep Cycle batteries are designed to deliver a relatively low amount of current over a long period of time and are able (as the name implies) to be discharged far more than a regular battery without damage. However, starting an engine requires a high amount of current for a short period of time which is exactly the opposite of what a deep cycle battery is designed for. And the larger the engine the more important that is. Starting batteries are designed for that duty. If you need to crank an engine for an extended period of time, get it fixed. There is another battery design designed for both applications and it will be clearly labeled "Marine Starting/Deep Cycle" or "Marine Dual Purpose". If the battery you are looking at is so marked, go for it. You can buy a larger capacity "Marine Starting" battery for the same or less money.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

It is better to use a deep cycle battery in a boat versus only a starting battery. You don't need both.

True Deep cycle batteries will perform well as cranking batteries, however, cranking batteries will not survive deep cycle use.

Deep cycle batteries can be used in any application and exhibit a long service life, while cranking batteries are limited to starting applications only. Cranking batteries exhibit poor service life in cycling applications.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

I agree with Jeeperman.

If your use of your motor is occasional, rather than constant, it is even more important that your battery can withstand many deep discharge and recharge cycles.

Also, if your rectifier is not regulated, no other battery is recommended but a deep cycle one.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Ezeke and Jeeperman, there is more reading material published by the battery manufacturers, equipment operators, marine industry, recreation industry, and others regarding this issue than you can imagine. None of it agrees with your philosophy . If what you contend were true, there woud be no need for Marine Starting batteries, no Dual Purpose, and only Marine Deep Cycle. Deep Cycle batteries are not designed to handle the 200 - 400 amp loads imposed by marine engine starters, and while a small two stroke might not draw that much, an I/O certainly will and some of the big four stroke outboards will fall in that category as well so one needs to be careful not to make all inclusive statements. The 90 HP two stroke will probably get by with a Deep Cycle if the engine is tuned. However a long period of cranking would probably damage the battery. If you happen to have a troller on your boat Jeeperman, you most definitely want two batteries unless you can rope start your engine or you have strong arms, can row upstream or row the five or six miles back to the dock. I think the battery manufacturers know best.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

If you will read the information in the battery section here at the iboats store, which I have good reason to believe is responsible, you will have no trouble finding this statement: "... Although you can use a deep cycle battery in any application, starting batteries can only be used for starting applications."

http://www.iboats.com/Optima_Marine...d.239682--list_time.1175035444--view_id.52134

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

The Optima batteries in the link states in the recommended application notes that these are rated "dual purpose" which is what I've been trying to get across. Not all deep cycle batteries are rated "dual purpose". You can use a case of flashlight batteries for starting purposes as well but it certainly is not recommended! As I said in my first response, people use deep cycle batteries for starting duties and get away with it but that is not the intended application. If a battery is specifically labeled for both duties, even the manufacturer will tell you its a compromise in that it will not be ideal for either purpose.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

It is better to use a deep cycle battery in a boat versus only a starting battery. You don't need both.

In other words, If you can only carry one battery make it a deep cycle battery.

If you went with the battery marketing campaign you would have to carry four batteries.

Again, if your motor does not turn over and start easily you should look into why.
Especially if you can only carry one battery onboard.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Besides,
The poster asked if it were "okay" and "could" he use a deep cycle.

He did not ask if he "could not use" one for starting.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Here is the first line of Skidoo's post: "Is there any reason I would not want to use a deep cycle battery for starting?" Looks to me like he wants to use it for starting. Therefore your answer to him is misleading. I agree that if you want to carry only one battery, it can be a battery labeled "marine starting/deep cycle". Not to be confused with a battery that is labeled simply "Marine/RV deep cycle". They are not the same construction. If the WalMart battery is labeled "dual purpose" or "Marine Starting/Deep Cycle" it's ok to use it for starting OR accessory use. If it's a standard "Deep Cycle" it is not a good choice for starting duty on that large an engine. By the way, the Optima battery Ezeke pointed us to is totally different construction than a standard flooded battery which the poster is looking at. Even the Optima comes in two varieties. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Been using a Deep Cycle from Cost-Co going on 7 years now..NEVER a starting problem. Deep Cycles just have thicker plates for more surface area. You don't need a lot of cold cranking amps either, unless you use the boat in freezing weather

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Is it labeled "Dual Purpose"?

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Is it labeled "Dual Purpose"?

Nope ...straight DC...never a problem (and I own a load tester, and a friend thats owns a batt biz)

 

[Jquest]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Using a deep cycle battery as a starting battery

There is generally no problem with this, providing that allowance is made for the lower cranking amps compared to a similar size starting battery. As a general rule, if you are going to use a true deep cycle battery (such as the Concorde) also as a starting battery, it should be oversized about 20% compared to the existing or recommended starting battery group size to get the same cranking amps. That is about the same as replacing a group 24 with a group 31. With modern engines with fuel injection and electronic ignition, it generally takes much less battery power to crank and start them, so raw cranking amps is less important than it used to be. On the other hand, many cars, boats, and RV's are more heavily loaded with power sucking "appliances", such as megawatt stereo systems etc. that are more suited for deep cycle batteries. We have been using the Concorde SunExtender AGM batteries in most of our vehicles for some time now with no problems.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#Using a deep cycle battery as a starting battery

Get one deep cycle and super size it.d

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Windsun Energy is an alternate energy source company. Not that they don't know what batteries are all about, but you should also check info from the various battery manufacturers. Most will say sure you can use a deep cycle for starting purposes -- "But". And then there is the whole issue of construction and terminology as pointed out in the quote from the Hull Truth form at the end of this post. Again, I'm not trying to persuade anyone not to use a deep cycle for starting purposes. I do want to make sure that people understand what the consequences are. Here are some quotes:

Interstate Batteries: "However, a marine/RV deep cycle battery typically will not offer the total number of starts you’ll get from a starting battery."

From Europower: "A deep cycle battery can provide a surge when needed, but nothing like the surge a car battery can."

From Exide: "Yes, deep cycle batteries can be used for engine starting purpose; but only as a back up of the existing starting battery. If it is used, you will need to increase the Ampere Hour estimate by 50% to ensure you have starting power when the battery has been partly discharged. "

And from the Hull Truth forum: From the Hull Truth Forum:
Many (most?) Marine batteries are usually actually a "hybrid", and fall between the starting and deep-cycle batteries, while a few (Rolls-Surrette and Concorde, for example) are true deep cycle. In the hybrid, the plates may be composed of Lead sponge, but it is coarser and heavier than that used in starting batteries. It is often hard to tell what you are getting in a "marine" battery, but most are a hybrid. "Hybrid" types should not be discharged more than 50%. Starting batteries are usually rated at "CCA", or cold cranking amps, or "MCA", Marine cranking amps - the same as "CA". Any battery with the capacity shown in CA or MCA may not be a true deep-cycle battery. It is sometimes hard to tell, as the terms marine and deep cycle are sometimes overused. CA and MCA ratings are at 32 degrees F, while CCA is at zero degree F. Unfortunately, the only positive way to tell with some batteries is to buy one and cut it open - not much of an option.

I'm done here. Use whatever makes you happy.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Silvertip,
If you read skidooosl's first post, second sentence.........

"I wanted a large battery that if needed I would give me quite a bit of cranking time"

It might appear that he wants to be able to use a second battery as an "if needed" battery for starting.

So maybe he has a starting battery and a deep cycle battery as well and only wants to know "if needed", he can start with the DC.

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

Sounds like this is getting out of hand.

I bought a 400 cubic inch diesel tractor that started easily with a general purpose size 27 deep cycle (only) battery. It was well weathered so I guess it survived the process for quite a while.

Also, tractors don't have springs and shocks so there is a lot of vibration which normal batteries don't like.

So to answer the original question, the only reason not to use it for that (starting) would be that they are not advertised to do it but I have living proof that they will.

Mark

 

[Jquest]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

@Silvertip,
My friend I was merely pointing out that as technology has to continued to evolve....better batteries have come on line. You are correct that there are batteries out there that should not be used, but if the consumer is wise and does research....he should come out ahead. That's all......
LOL!!

 

[boatingfromthepoorhouse]

Re: Is a deep cycle battery ok for starting?

OK, I have to throw my 2 cents in, the main enemy of batteries is...HEAT! A fully CHARGED battery, starting or deep cycle, will run well over capacity if kept cool. since starting draws high amps, and amperage draw = HEAT... you will runn the risk accoridngly. But it can be done safely. In short...if the battery feels fairly warm to hot...stop trying to crank it and let it cool off. Batteries that explode, usually due to high heat fro whatever reason, are quite impressive with the amount of damage thay can cause. and acid burns hurt like he..! Good luck!