Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,079
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Now once the foam has been fibre glassed over. The foam will be completed sealed and no water will be able to penertrate the foam.
Ayuh,.............. You just Keep telling yourself That........... I Know Better.......<br /><br />There's No Such Thing as a Sealed Completely Waterproof compartment on Any Boat.........<br /><br />BTW,.............<br />
Is foam flotation a legal requirement?
Only If you're a Boat Manufacturer.............
 

billh1963

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Messages
78
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

I'm surprised that anyone would advocate not using flotation...especially foam. Yes, it's a pain when older foam gets wet and saturated which can add a lot of weight to a boat. But the newer foams won't hold water like the older foams did.<br /><br />I plan on replacing the foam in my Aquasport restoration. If properly applied it does add integrity to the hull as well as some peace of mind.<br /><br />Maybe sinking in a small lake isn't as big a deal as sinking offshore. But, I know if my boat had a problem I'd definitely want something to hold on to!
 

budbecks

Cadet
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
14
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Even if the foam does become water tight through completely fbireglassing the whole lot. It will still make the whole structure of the boat stronger will it not.<br /><br />Maybe different boats vary but i have done quite a few fibreglass roofs in my time and i know once that stuff is placed and installed correctly that overall final product is incredibally strong is it not.<br /><br />I know in my boat once it has been installed the hull will be made a whole lot stronger. Not that it needs more strength mind.
 

santa666

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
98
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Yeah guys, Sorry to break the foamers hearts I'm not going with foam.
 

santa666

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
98
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Yeah guys, Sorry to break the foamers hearts I'm not going with foam.
 

Buttanic

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
711
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

I do not like foam.It will get wet no matter what anyone says. If I had to dig 500 pounds of wet foam out of a boat I am fixing I sure wouldn't put it back in. Wise choise santa666.
 

brownies

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
495
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Coming from a "relatively" small, but, well know boat manufacturer, With a long history and strong following.<br /> "If we are building a boat for ourselves (one of our employees or owners), we NEVER install floatation foam."<br /> Until I hear differently from a better source, I guess I'm a firm beleiver in no foam when given the choice.<br /> Some boat builders used to lay loose chunks of styrofoam in the hulls before laying the floor. Over time, I think that would turn into a really "squeeky" ride???
 

brownies

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
495
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

IF you do use floatation. It will mean that you think no water can get to it, therefore, Do everything you can to the point of overkill to seal the openings / areas where the foam is applied.<br /> <br /> If you don't use floatation, It will mean that you think water CAN get to it, therefore, Do not SEAL those areas completely....that way when water gets in there, it can get out. AND if water can get out, air will be able to get in to help dry out the moisture as well.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,079
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

If you don't use floatation, It will mean that you think water CAN get to it, therefore, Do not SEAL those areas completely....that way when water gets in there, it can get out. AND if water can get out, air will be able to get in to help dry out the moisture as well.
Excellent Point...........<br /><br />Limber Holes haven't been mentioned in awhile......<br /><br />You should have Good Drainage from All points in the Boat, to the Bilgepumps.......<br /><br />You Need Limberholes Thru/ Under all your Stringers,+ Bulkheads so that water can Drain......... ;)
 

brownies

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
495
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

You can seal the edges of the holes also. <br />I've not been worried about being able to seal off a stringer. You can see three sides of it, and get to it with glass and/or anything you want to use to seal/finish it.<br /> If you drill a limber hole, you can use a thru hull fitting to seal the wood edge that the drill bit found, or, you can glass the edge.<br /> <br /> When you put the floor back down though, it's hard to know if you ever actually sealed it "completely" against the stringers. (that's why I don't put the floatation back in there)...also, if the floor wood stays wet for very long, it will seep.<br /><br /> IF I knew without any question or doubt that I could seal those cavities that came with floatation in them, I'd probably put the stuff back in there. BUT, since boat manufactureres can't do it, doubt I could either.
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Sealing edges of holes...one way is to drill the hole slightly larger than you need, fill it with epoxy, then drill the hole in the epoxy.
 

tashasdaddy

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
51,019
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

just looked at a 1979 18' bonita deep V. it had obviously been waterlogged before. they cut the floor out remove foam. finish bu putting 1/2 plywood over it and painted. there is nothing left of the stringer or transom. a great hull, great galvanized trailer. they want $500. i think that is too much. no motor, rated 135hp.
 

brownies

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
495
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Too much $ I'd agree unless you needed a trailer. Looks like they didn't catch it in time.<br /> I like the epoxy idea.
 

santa666

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
98
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

QUOTE: If you don't use floatation, It will mean that you think water CAN get to it, therefore, Do not SEAL those areas completely....that way when water gets in there, it can get out. AND if water can get out, air will be able to get in to help dry out the moisture as well.<br /><br />That's pretty much right. <br /><br />I do feel that water WILL, not CAN get to it, and that I WILL seal the edges of the cabin sole/hull, but have clear drainage (underneath) and that...<br /><br />WHEN water gets in there, it WILL get (pushed)out. (by me): QUOTE "air will be able to get in to help dry out the moisture as well."<br /><br /><br />THEREFORE, the boat will have a built in positive airflow system- To wit:<br /><br />I am building in a sealed bearing marine grade biscuit fan (on a timer) that will force (statiscally) drier air from outside into an opening up inside the upper front of the bow through the stringer and bilge area and out into the atmosphere in the open bilge well to evaporate. <br /><br />This boat is to be a trailer boat and will be stored/drained on an incline comfort me greatly in my thought of having a long-term viable boat. <br />I'll also fill each floor screw hole with resin as well as have sealed drainage holes in the stringers and bulkheads. <br /><br />Couple these with my intent to use a fiberglass sealant system (like interlux 2000e and bilgecote) INSIDE the hull before final assembly, I'll NEVER have to do sringers/transom/floor again. <br /><br />This was a free boat that my dad bought when we were kids (1968) We've had a TON of fun on it. I recently bought a '96 Mercury 115. So, there's sentimental value, and its a labor of love.<br /><br />So, its going to be like that TV rotisserie oven:<br />JUST SET IT, AND FORGET IT-
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Not to burst anyone's bubble but after you cut up a couple of boats it gets evident that any and all foam can stay wet for years. Ask any shop that does stringer/floor jobs for a living. Closed cell just takes longer to get saturated but it sucks water too. Ask the folks who make foam (Clark is a big player) if you need proof but don't rely on boat advertising. Water that drips down or splashes gets trapped in cells that won't drain. You have to turn the boat upside down to drain them. Once foam gets really saturated it stays wet way beyond whatever drains naturally. Air drying sounds good but in practice doesn't do much. I cut a boat up that had the drain plug open and bow pointed in the air for approx 9 yrs. It was stored under roof where rain couldn't hit it and the foam stayed wet. <br /><br />The way to fully evacuate water from the foam is to pull a vacuum. It doesn't take much to pull the water out but it is about the only way to get it throughly dry. We used vacuum to dry out foam insulation on commercial roofs. Fans take years to do what a vacuum pump takes weeks. Attach a VP to the drain plug hole and dry it that way.
 

santa666

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
98
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

To Bill P, <br />Ok, clearly you've missed the point. <br /><br />I AM NOT GOING TO FOAM. There, wrote it out. I agree with you, AND I like to beat a dead horse too. Sexual metaphors aside, I think I'm going to have a darn good boat without foam. <br /><br />Not turning of boats over, no vacuum pumps, won't have to dry it for 9 years, none of that, just fiberglass, some bilge coat and a coupla fans.
 

Buttanic

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
711
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Interesting point about using a vacuum pump. I bet one of those big vacuum kilns they use to dry lumber in would get th job done. I am surprised someone doesn't offer that service.
 

Bondo

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 17, 2002
Messages
71,079
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

I bet one of those big vacuum kilns they use to dry lumber in would get th job done.
There's Not really any Vacuuming going on it a Kiln,.........<br /><br />Kilns Bake lumber in Steam, to Dry the Wood...........
 

Buttanic

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 25, 2003
Messages
711
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

Originally posted by Bondo:<br />
I bet one of those big vacuum kilns they use to dry lumber in would get th job done.
There's Not really any Vacuuming going on it a Kiln,.........<br /><br />Kilns Bake lumber in Steam, to Dry the Wood...........
I was watching a show on TV where they were salvageing sunken logs and after they were cut into lumber they were put into a kiln that pulled a vacuum to dry the wood.<br /><br /> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Vacuum_kiln_drying.html
 

surlyjoe

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
486
Re: Is foam flotation a legal requirement?

water doesn't boil until 30 inches of vacuum, that would prolly implode your hull...
 
Top