Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

[sinkher]

I've read nothing here but that 470's are time bombs waiting to explode. I bought this 1977, 22 ft, Drumond, nice trailer, nice boat, ($550) with a mercruiser 165/Alpha one. Lots of work...pulled motor to replace oil pan, various gaskets, impeller, etc..Motor starts instantaly and runs stong. Has 4 inch exchanger plus altenater conversion. No pertronics...yet. Question is, is the 470 considered a worse motor than the 4 cly 165, or are they the same monster. Should I take a chance on this motor/boat, or start parting it out. It all seems strong at this point. Just want to have fun in the sun. But don't want to get too burned.

 

[guyaverage]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

The 470 came in various flavors throughout its career, 165/170/3.7/470/180/190/3.7LX... their all the same basic engine. There have been various carbs, manifolds, risers, names, and horsepower ratings. If you only paid $550 for it and it runs good, and someone has already done some of the nasty work like the 4-inch exchanger, alternator conversion, etc. then go have fun with it. If you hadnt bought it yet, I'd say stay away from it. Since you already have it, I'd give it a chance. It can be a decent engine if it was maintained and not run hot, 95% of the problems I have had with mine had little to do with it being a 470, and more to do with it being a 20+ year old boat.

Selling the 4-inch exchanger and alternator conversion kit on ebay alone will get you 75% of your money back if you decide to ditch it.

As long as you are doing basic maintenance on it, change out the water pump seals. Merc manual #8 is a good thing to have too.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

or are they the same monster.

Ayuh,... 1 in the Same...

 

[sinkher]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

Thankyou gentlemen, I'll stick with it till it dies I guess. I just hope that isn't 10 miles offshore.

 

[Don S]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

They don't die that fast. You will get warnings first, you just have to notice them and fix them before it's too late.
An impeller every other year would be a very good thing on a 470.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

I've read nothing here but that 470's are time bombs waiting to explode. .............and runs stong. Has 4 inch exchanger plus altenater conversion. No pertronics...yet. .......... Should I take a chance on this motor/boat, or start parting it out. It all seems strong at this point. Just want to have fun in the sun. But don't want to get too burned.

NOT TRUE, little annoying things go wrong with them, and have to be taken care of, two of which (alternator & exchanger) are already done. Water pump seals can leak. but can be taken care of when it happens. Forget the pertronix, stick with the points, maybe upgrade to a Flame-thrower coil. As far as leaving you stranded, a well tuned 470 is as reliable as any other motor of that vintage, and they never ever freeze. Take it out and have fun! You might even like it.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

KEEP IT!!!!!!! It's only as bad as the person doing the maintainance.J

 

[sinkher]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

Thanks everyone, I'll keep her and treat her like a new born babe. P.S. This forum has been a HUGE help.

 

[achris]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

Download the service manuals and service bulletins and have a browse through them... Plenty of good information in them... (A secret -- that's where we all get our info )....

Chris.......

Go to the ADULTS ONLY section of this forum for the manuals and bulletins...

 

[natemoore]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

Thanks everyone, I'll keep her and treat her like a new born babe. P.S. This forum has been a HUGE help.

Hey sinkher, my boat engine lasted 22 years before needing a rebuild. Unfortunately for me, I paid about $1500 more than I should have, knowing what I know now.

But, after pulling and rebuilding the engine, bell housing and (partially) the outdrive successfully, I consider the extra money I spent my tuition.

Don't overheat it and check the weep hole on the timing cover for coolant. Periodically replace your exhaust shutter. Remove and inspect the exhaust riser every few years...That's my advice.

My neighbor with a 5.7L with loads of problems due to lack of maintenance....

 

[YeboGogo]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

This is one of those things that ticks me off.


Ok the 470 has some issues but 99% of yours have been removed.

the small heat exchanger was an issue. They went from 3" to 4" and it fixed most of the issue. I run the **** out of mine and its solid and keeps cool. If the impeller works it stays nice and cool

The stator wasnt as much of a problem as it was expensive to fix. You have the alternator so your good to go. Reliable power and easy to replace.

Points are universal for everything that age. Fix isnt too hard. You seem to know it.

just keep it tuned up and give it hell!

 

[45Auto]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

As far as leaving you stranded, a well tuned 470 is as reliable as any other motor of that vintage,

That's not true. Maybe we need to define reliability. From Wikipedia, definition of reliability in a system:

Reliability (systemic def.); is the ability of a person or system to perform and maintain its functions in routine circumstances, as well as hostile or unexpected circumstances.

The weakness of the 470 compared to other motors of that vintage is it's inability to maintain it's function under many of those "hostile or unexpected circumstances", primarily involving overheating. The combination of the open-deck aluminum block (top of the cylinder is unsupported) with the iron cylinder head makes them extremely susceptible to blowing head gaskets under overheat conditions that wouldn't bother a conventional engine.

Mercury choose to make the engine as cheaply as possible by using the open-deck design. An open deck block can be produced much cheaper and quicker than a closed deck block. An open deck design allows removable, reusable tooling to cast the water passage in the block as opposed to a closed deck design which requires sandcasting. The "hard" tooling (as opposed to "soft" sand casting) used for an open deck block also allows much better control of wall thicknesses, which means they can be made thinner thereby requiring less material. Less material equals lower cost.

Mercury traded off reliability for producibility as a management cost-saving decision. Doesn't mean it was good or bad, it's just one of the decisions you have to make to manufacture a consumer product.

As long as you maintain your 470 and it doesn't experience any "unexpected" circumstances, it'll work fine. But in the 470, Mercury produced a cheap, powerful engine that is NOT as reliable as conventional motors of that vintage.

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Is my 165 (B772088) 4cyl, A 470 in disguise?

And if you leave the water in a 4.3 it'll crack like Humpty Dumpty, with the same results! Gotta take care of any engine.