Is my welder drunk?

[byronio]

28 ft Grumman, kept in a covered slip. After a while it starts leaning very badly and gets worse. I don't have a trailer but I borrowed one, drained water out of the rear plug for about 45 minutes. I put new thread tape on plug threads and hoped that was the problem. It wasn't, and started sinking on one side again.

Called a welder that the marina likes. He did his thing and put it back in the water without telling me (I had said I wanted to be there) and left a bill for $150 at the marina. I paid it. A couple weeks later, it's starting to sink again.

He says he fixed the "obvious stuff" but couldn't find any other leaks. Says he used 9 lbs of air and spent 30 minutes soaping and looking.....He says it just has to be where he can't see it. He was saying "rudder" but I can only imagine he means those bracket plates that connect the log to the deck, like he can't see the bubbles there, so he wants to take it home and start cutting out those plates, look for bubbles, etc...He figures this will cost between $300-$480, but that it will just be what it needs to be.

He says he's been welding for 30 years and this is only the third time this has happened.
I mentioned my concerns to the marina owner, and he just smirked and said I could try to find the leak myself..........

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

[lmuss53]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I think I'd borrow the trailer again, put 5 lbs. of pressure on the tube and spend as much time as it took to find the leak and then call him or someone else to fix it or them.

Put a real soapy solution in a spray bottle, get a good flashlight and really get in there and search out the leaks. Don't forget the keel, I had a tube that accumulated water in the keel and tore the weld away from the tube when it froze. It didn't take much soap to find that, it sounded like a car tire going flat when we put the air to it. After the second time I drilled a drain hole in the keel.

I can't say the guy did a bad job or charged too much, most marina service calls are expensive. My mechanic charges $75 to go out and $75 an hour to be there.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I had the same problem last fall.. I would find another welder. The guy I had found that the back bracket cracked and that is where the water was primarily getting in. He also found a few pin hole on the bottom.. For $300 he went over each bracket, fixed the pin holes, and straigtened a bent fence railing, and repaired my sunpad fence. He knew exactly what he was he was doing..

He said that the rear brackets that attached the deck to the toon will crack because of the stress the get from the transom and the water hitting the deck. Not that uncommon he said.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

As far as the air and soapy water that is correct but no I wouldn't let him start cutting up the boat to find the leak.

It may be that the hole is so large that it doesn't bubble it just sprays and it would have to be a pretty large hole for it to take that much water that quickly.

The hole could be anywhere, water splashes all over under the boat so it could easily be on top of the tube, normally leaks are at the ends of the front or rear brackets as they are stress points.

Something else is you need to have a constant supply of air, since there is a leak if you just put air in it once it will all bleed out.

As far as the "rudder" he may have meant the keel and if it was on a trailer you could certainly get to that.

I would pull the boat and go over it myself and find what he missed, get some air in it then stop the air flow and just listen, you can hear a larger leak, if you don't hear anything then start spaying it everywhere you cna get to with with soapy water.

At work we would just pull the tube and do it but that is beyond most people but do ot let him start hacking your boat apart to find a leak, that is sort of like curing cancer with a bullet.

 

[sasto]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Just an interesting note.....

I have a friend that has been welding boats for years. He came upon a pontoon that whatever he did, he couldn't get the thing to seal. Couldn't find the leak. He pressureized the toon and monitored a gauge. Nothing leaking. Put her in the drink and she would fill up with water. Another pressure test....nothing. He called a toon expert in for a second opinion. These guys were stumped and gave up.

The owner replaced the sponson, and the guys opened the defected one up. What they found was damage that would seal itself when pressureized from within, but when put in the drink, the damage would open up and take on water.

I've heard the story many times over...but in thier 40+ years expierence, this was the first for them.

Good luck, byronio. I wish you well!

 

[lncoop]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Don't know if he's a drunk, but he certainly sounds like a jacka**. I have infinite respect for tradesmen, but you gotta love the ones who think think they're doing their customers a favor by gracing them with their services. Consider the money you gave him cash down the drain, we've all been there, and find a new welder pronto. This guy is a CLOWN. Welcome aboard and please keep us posted. That's how we all learn.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

If you do this yourself, be very careful about how much pressure is used. If I am not mistaken you need less than 4lbs/sqft to do this. Anymore could result in an explosion. 5150 would have better numbers, but more is not better in doing this..

 

[byronio]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Thanks for the replies. I'm in the bad spot of no longer having a trailer long enough to borrow for this boat, so I can't do anything myself.....I also can't find any other welder in the area with a trailer long enough.....I also can't really go to any other marina that isn't a half hour further away at least, and even if we moved our boat there, it would be a 3 mile boat ride to get to the only sand beach my kids can play on, which just happens to be only a few hundred yards from my current marina.....

One more thing, the welder made it sound like he was surprised that it was still leaking. Even if he couldn't find the leak before, and didn't have time to keep looking, with an air compressor and guage, he should have at least known that there was still a leak, right?

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Yes, your welder is drunk! Borrow or rent a trailer from him or another tooner who's not using theirs. Find the leaks yourself, mark them and then take it to a reliable welder who is sober..

 

[lncoop]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

You might try calling around in your area to find welders who specialize in aluminum and have considerable experience with barges. Check with marine dealers too. Most have someone they use. Once you find one who gives you good vibes borrow or rent a trailer from someone and take the barge to him. Arrange everything in advance so you won't have to keep the trailer longer than planned. A competent aluminum welder should have no problem finding and addressing a leak (or leaks) that significant. Under no circumstances should you let this clown near your boat again.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Just an interesting note.....

I have a friend that has been welding boats for years. He came upon a pontoon that whatever he did, he couldn't get the thing to seal. Couldn't find the leak. He pressureized the toon and monitored a gauge. Nothing leaking. Put her in the drink and she would fill up with water. Another pressure test....nothing. He called a toon expert in for a second opinion. These guys were stumped and gave up.

The owner replaced the sponson, and the guys opened the defected one up. What they found was damage that would seal itself when pressureized from within, but when put in the drink, the damage would open up and take on water.

I've heard the story many times over...but in thier 40+ years expierence, this was the first for them.

Good luck, byronio. I wish you well!

I'd venture to say this is right on the money....

 

[RandyJ]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Thanks for the replies. I'm in the bad spot of no longer having a trailer long enough to borrow for this boat, so I can't do anything myself.....I also can't find any other welder in the area with a trailer long enough.....I also can't really go to any other marina that isn't a half hour further away at least, and even if we moved our boat there, it would be a 3 mile boat ride to get to the only sand beach my kids can play on, which just happens to be only a few hundred yards from my current marina.....

One more thing, the welder made it sound like he was surprised that it was still leaking. Even if he couldn't find the leak before, and didn't have time to keep looking, with an air compressor and guage, he should have at least known that there was still a leak, right?

I hate to sound like a smarty pants but come on now! 3 miles? 30 minutes? Are you spoiled or what? I've been around this stuff for a very long time and it's not unusual to drive 1/2 day to find a part... you can't just throw money at it and expect everything to be done just perfectly while you sit around sippin' a mint julip. Pardon my harassment but it does take work and some times solving problems on boats and mechanical things is not so simple. Besides, if you croak in a hospital then the doctor isn't going to give your money back....

 

[byronio]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I hate to sound like a smarty pants but come on now! 3 miles? 30 minutes? Are you spoiled or what? I've been around this stuff for a very long time and it's not unusual to drive 1/2 day to find a part... you can't just throw money at it and expect everything to be done just perfectly while you sit around sippin' a mint julip. Pardon my harassment but it does take work and some times solving problems on boats and mechanical things is not so simple. Besides, if you croak in a hospital then the doctor isn't going to give your money back....

I think you are drunk. People were saying that I should move my boat to a different marina since the owner of my current marina wasn't being too helpful. I explained that to relocate my boat to a different marina, I'd tack another 30 minute drive on every time we wanted to hit the lake, plus that marina would require a 3 mile boat trip to get to the only sand beach in the area my kids can play on, and that beach happens to be a couple hundred yards from where my boat currently is.

Mint julips and parts and croaking in the hospital...I have no idea what you are babbling about. Sober up and practice some reading comprehension.

 

[RandyJ]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

Well I might be drunk but I sure wouldn't be at a marina where I couldn't get service. I expect more from a marina than just a place to park my boat. If they're not going to look out for their customers and their customers boats then they don't need my business.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I think you are drunk. People were saying that I should move my boat to a different marina since the owner of my current marina wasn't being too helpful. I explained that to relocate my boat to a different marina, I'd tack another 30 minute drive on every time we wanted to hit the lake, plus that marina would require a 3 mile boat trip to get to the only sand beach in the area my kids can play on, and that beach happens to be a couple hundred yards from where my boat currently is.

Mint julips and parts and croaking in the hospital...I have no idea what you are babbling about. Sober up and practice some reading comprehension.

Mint Juleps are overrated. A nice Johnny Walker; now we're talking. Black label or better please. Byronio, I agree that switching marinas just because the owner recommended a jackleg welder is silly. However, I implore, beg and beseech you not to let said jackleg welder near your boat again. Good luck partner. Hope you get her squared away.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I think he means to take the boat to a different place to have it fixxed this time not permanently switch marinas.

I have welded pontoons for 24 years and I can tell you, you do not want anyone cutting parts off your boat to find a leak, it will never be right again.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I think he means to take the boat to a different place to have it fixxed this time not permanently switch marinas.

I have welded pontoons for 24 years and I can tell you, you do not want anyone cutting parts off your boat to find a leak, it will never be right again.

Roger that. Hence my continued assertion that he's a CLOWN.

 

[byronio]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

I wonder why he was saying that he had to cut part of the brackets off? How do you weld behind them, even if you could find the leak there? I hope you tell me, because when he told me how obvious it was that you can't see (or weld) behind those brackets, I sure couldn't contradict him because I'm not a boat welder or anything...

 

[5150abf]

Re: Is my welder drunk?

At work (Bennington) when I get a boat in like that I have the tube pulled then air check it I have never and would never cut off the brackets, if the leak isn't visible checking it inside and out that is really the only way to do it correctly.

The problem is after you cut the bracket off and weld it back on you really compromise the integrity of the boat and if you aren't very carefull how you weld the brackets back on the will almost certainly crack again.

And by the time you cut off and reweld all the brackets looking for a leak you have spent at least as much time and more effort than what it would take to just pull the tube and do it right.