Is there a difference between Full spark timing adjustment and WOT timing adjustment

[spybot]

Is there a difference between Full spark timing adjustment and WOT timing adjustment
I have read about Joe Reeves WOT timing adjustment being my own plus 4degs.
What is full spark adjustment ???
Trying to get my old 1980 V4 85 running sweet but she is idling to fast and crunches into gear more so reverse than forward.
My engine is model J85T LCSA and it has fixed High and Low speed jets so i cant adjust them. The last thing i can do is get the timing bang on.
Please help with this

 

[F_R]

Why are you messing with the WOT/Full throttle when your problem is too fast an idle RPM? You need to adjust the idle RPM. Look about half way up the vertical throttle control lever. See that screw with the spring on it? That is the idle speed adjustment. Adjust is for desired idle RPM with throttle lever pulled all the way back. If the control cable won't pull it back far enough, adjust the cable. Don't be messing with all that other stuff. If somebody has already messed with it, you may have to do a complete link & sync procedure.

 

[flyingscott]

Your WOT timing has nothing to do with your idle may want to look into the link and sync and idle adjustment. You also need to subtract 4 deg from your timing value not add for the joe reeves method. If you add 4 you will end up with 8 deg more advance that is not good. WOT timing is set by pushing the throttle all the way forward until the timer base hits the stop. Here is the link http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engin...ming-procedure


Sorry F-R my computer posted this slow

 

[spybot]

Thanks F-R and Flyingscot. I understand that the idle is set by the setscrew. But the set screw is not touching the block as it should be. Could the cable be stretched ? I read that the idle timing can be set by the Joe Reeves method. My thinking was get the timing spot on then do a complete link and sync then hopefully my idle will be down and i wont hit flat spots when running wot. Any thoughts on that ?

 

[flyingscott]

Link and sync first before anything. You may need to adjust the throttle cable to pull it tight against the stop.

 

[spybot]

OK so should i do a Link and sync first then try to get the timing correct ? Or timing then link and sync ?
Is there a specific way todo my engine or are all V4 johnsons the same ? i only have a clymer manual which covers the link and sync. They say to set the timing first but you have said to do that secondly ????
I appreciate the knowledge you have hence i am asking the questions

 

[spybot]

Is there a link on how to perform the link and sync ?

 

[flyingscott]

I would leave the timing alone unless something catastrophic occurred or somebody moved it there is no need to touch it. The timing doesn't just go out on outboard motors. You make no mention of a high speed problem so I don't understand why you are concerned about the timing. You have an idle problem which is a whole different animal.

First thing I would do is look at the throttle cable adjustment

 

[Bosunsmate]

Ive done timing on that motor, its easy. Just check that at full throttle that your butterflys a open to max and that your max timing advance is where it should be.
Set idle in water when motor is warm so it just runs, ie doesnt stall.

 

[spybot]

One last question on this. When i do set the timing is the Stop to be fully screwed in or fully extended ?

 

[F_R]

Still stuck on the timing, eh? Unless it has been messed with, leave it alone. Since you are so concerned, I assume it has been messed with (???)

EDIT: The complete timing and link&sync procedure is so complex that you may have trouble finding anybody willing to type it all out here. You really need a service manual if you want to get into that. (Includes pictures).

 

[spybot]

Hi F-R yeah i think it has been messed with the end of last year some adjusted it the timing and i dont think she has run properly since then.
I was out in the loch last week and she seemed lacking in power but then for a split second sounded really good and a short burts of power then back down to lacking power. I have had the carbs rebuilt with new kits. Had new plugs in her. I will try the link and sync to see if this helps on the matter. I have a clymer on her so i will use that. Hopefully i can have her running sweet. Unfortunately the model engine i have (J85TLCSA) has fixed upper and Lower jets so nothing i can do there. Im dubious of the guy that built the carbs for me. he said the engine was running rich and he had "sorted it out" I don,t know how he managed that as there is no adjustment on the carbs. Hence has he moved the timing ?????
All feedback taken good and bad. I am learning all the time

 

[flyingscott]

You cannot fix a rich condition with timing. If your motor is surging I would look at the carbs again especially float bowl heights. Go on evinrudes website and make sure you have the correct jets in your motor. You can just check your timing with the joe reeves method.You could have an electrical issue.

 

[Bosunsmate]

One last question on this. When i do set the timing is the Stop to be fully screwed in or fully extended ?

The max advance stop should be where the timing is max too according to Joe Reeves method
The stop for the minimum speed should be adjusted to where the butterflys a well and truely closed and the engine is just managing to idle while warm and in the water, ie it puts the idle at its lowest possible point without stalling so you can put it into gear without it running to fast and crunching the gears that you a talking about

 

[Bosunsmate]

Just slowly back it out while the engine is warm until the engine stalls and then when the engine stalls push it in half a turn and try again, If it doesnt stall then thats set right if it does adjust it a quarter of a turn until it never does while warm.
A two stroke warm and idling at its very possible lowest rpm without stalling is a beautiful sound

 

[spybot]

Hi guys
Just back from a week with the boat.
I sorted the idle issue by doing a complete Link and Sync
Got the butterflys completely closed and the cam not touching the roller. She now idles fine not had a tacho on her yet that is for this weekend.
I need to to start another thread regarding her starting. She takes full choke manually turned n the servo before she will start. even then it takes a good few minutes before she ticks over. I suspect its somthing to do with the age of the engine. i have read somewhere that the crankseals are prone to fail after a certain amount of time. So it will be a teardown over the winter and possibly look at tuning the old V4 to try and get her more like the 115HP any thoughts ????
Thanks again for your help

 

[Bosunsmate]

You should do a compression test. Pushing the key in on the control to activate the choke and while doing that to activate the starter normally has them firing straight up.
You need to troubleshoot your primer. Check with engine off you can hear it click when you press key in

 

[spybot]

Hi Bosunsmate the comp test is this weekend. The primer works it clicks as soon as i push the key in. i have just got new rubber gasket and end for it. one of the small hose tails broke off so its like a new solenoid again. Thats whats making wonder why should i have to flood the crankcase with fuel for it to start or could this be linked to the crank seals ????

 

[Bosunsmate]

Well you need good compression to start and enough advancement of timing using warm up lever

 

[spybot]

Just slowly back it out while the engine is warm until the engine stalls and then when the engine stalls push it in half a turn and try again, If it doesnt stall then thats set right if it does adjust it a quarter of a turn until it never does while warm.
A two stroke warm and idling at its very possible lowest rpm without stalling is a beautiful sound

Yes that is very true what an awesome sound