Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

DavidW2009

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A couple months ago I bought a good trailer. A 1987 Baretta 16' boat came with it free. The boat has a Ford 2.3 Liter Cobra I/O. The hour meter says 95 hours (may or may not be true), but all the instruments are in very good condition and work.

I ran it on the muffs yesterday. I noticed it was leaking water around the head water elbow gasket. I removed the elbow and found one of the flange ears was broken off. I also noticed it was quite rusty inside the elbow. The elbow appears to be made of cast iron or cast steel.

See attached photo.

Is this rust normal for a fresh water boat, or does it look like salt water damage?
 

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Bondo

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Ayuh,... It don't look to bad for 23 years old... Except for being Broken...
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

I've done much of my own hose maintenance on my vehicles and have never seen and elbow connector look that rusty. Probably because an auto has a closed system with anti-freeze and rust inhibitors in it.

So this amount rust inside the coolant passages is to be expected on older I/O's with cast iron heads and blocks used in fresh water?

(Just trying to establish a frame of reference. Never owned an I/O before.)
 

Bondo

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

So this amount rust inside the coolant passages is to be expected on older I/O's with cast iron heads and blocks used in fresh water?

Ayuh,... Generally speakin', in sweetwater, the castings will devolop a rust patina rather soon, but not get any deeper, or worse for decades...
 

zbnutcase

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Way normal for its age. And chances are it's been in saltwater at least some point in its life. 'nutcase
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

I just read a number of iboat threads that included discussion on internal engine rust.

It appears what I've got is normal. I suspect this boat has been in brackish or salt water, from time to time, even though the last two PO's live here in the upcountry, 200+ miles from saltwater. The rust is bright red inside. I reason that means there is no patina formed. Is that because saltwater destroys the patina?

Any products that could be run thru this engine to retard or stop rusting? Something like a liquid navel jelly to change the metal surface to a phosphate?
 

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Fishermark

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

If it has been run in salt water there is nothing that can stop it from rusting now. Period. I have boated in salt water all my life. The salt gets into the iron and nothing will get it out. Just go boating and enjoy it while it lasts!
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Fishermark,

Thanks for your comment.

This is a $3,000+ decision. I'll have to spend that to go boating with this boat (new transom, floor and stringers)..............

Or, I can part it out and maybe make $3,000 if it has some good parts.

I'm trying to determine the life expectancy, assuming the motor and drive are good. (Have to factor in the rust factor.)

It's like finding a wife these days. Is she worth it?
 
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Fishermark

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

The boat has a Ford 2.3 Liter Cobra I/O.

I'll make it easy for you. FORGET SINKING MONEY INTO THIS BOAT.

Best $3,000 decision you will ever make.

Part it out and find another boat.
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Had the head elbow reworked. $10.

The welder said it was made from cast steel.

See attached photos.

After welding, the part was cleaned and painted.
 

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CaptainHook

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

I am sure it was cast......I was under the impression cat iron could not be welded though?????:confused:
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

It's cast steel, not cast iron, according to the welder.

I asked him if he could weld coal fired cast iron (as opposed to coke fired cast iron). He said he could weld anything. (LOL)

The weld looks good. He wrapped it in a heavy welders thermo blanket to slow the cooling. It took almost two hours to cool to touch. Even then it was still pretty warm. He said if it cools too fast, it will crack.

He also said it will take the normal torque on the bolts. No special consideration.
 
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rjwoodrome

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

He did a great job there. give it a new gasket, throw it back on. 95 hrs is pretty low. hope the rest is is in good to fair shape at well.
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Installed the reworked head elbow after work today.

I used the Permatex black sealer, 1/8" bead, no gasket.

The surfaces were scraped and then cleaned with rubbing alcohol and the bead applied. I let the Permatex skim over a bit before mating the parts.

I finger tightened the bolts and let it set for about 15 minutes before applying minimal torque. The welded flange ear held. No problems.

I let is set for a couple of hours then turned on the muffs and fired it up.

No leaks. I ran the engine for about 20 minutes. No leaks. Engine temp got up to about 145 deg..

While the thermostat housing and head elbow were off, I looked inside the engine cooling jacket and poked around for rust. The inside of the jacket did not look near as bad as the elbow. The rust inside had more of a patina to it.
May be differences in casting material.

I also noticed after cleaning the head elbow gasket off the head, that there was another tapped hole in the place where an automobile thermostat housing would bolt. I priced out the 2.3 liter t/housings at around $12 new. They were aluminum. I reason that in a bind, one of those could be fitted to the Cobra. Have to find one that points in the correct direction.
Just a thought.

The photo attached shows the reworked elbow in place with the engine running.

Edit: Now have about one hour run time on the muffs and the weld is holding up. (I noticed the hour meter is working properly.) The welder did a good job.
 

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DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

rjwoodrome: "He did a great job there. give it a new gasket, throw it back on. 95 hrs is pretty low. hope the rest is is in good to fair shape at well."

That's the problem. The floors, stringers and transom are ROTTEN to the core. The hull shell, instruments, electrical system and engine are great. But after the cost of reworking, would yield a nice boat with an obsolete motor and drive that I could not depend upon for 10 years of use. And it would not sell for what I'd have to put into it.

If I do anything, it would be to sell off the Cobra stuff, have the transom, stringers and deck replaced and repower with a Chevy 120-140 and Mercruiser I/O.
 

Lou C

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

It all depends on what you want to do...are you wanting to do a complete restoration...because that's what it will turn into....but then...you know what you have...if you got 3 grand from the parting out...most of the boats you can get for that money can be just as bad unless you look really hard for one that was stored inside...the ohter issue is the Ford/Cobra drive train...the Cobra can be replaced with an Alpha easy enough...I'd research how different the engine monting is from the Ford to the GM engine first before jumping in....but with the glass work you'll have to do in the resto...that's just a part of it...

That rust is typical for a salt water cooled motor...my old thermo housing looked the same...I replaced it and the manifolds back in 03/04 and I do fill the engine with -100 marine antifreeze during the winter....I looked inside the intake manifold when I was changing the thermostat season before last and it looked a lot less rusty in there than the old thermo housing....if you re-powered and were going to boat in brackish water then adding closed cooling would be the way to go...

the fix looks good...if you ever need another...looks like the OE one may still be available...

http://www.crowleymarine.com/brp_parts/diagrams/29827.cfm
 

DavidW2009

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Re: Is This A Normal Amount Of Rust?

Thanks for the link to Crowley, Lou.

After doing a bit more reading and talking with some marine yards, a switch to Volvo-Penta outdrive and a 4-cylinder Chevy may be the best choice. (I need to research what engines are coupled to Volvos. Don't even know if Chevy was used.) I only want to use what is standard and available. I'm not going to build a Frankenstein repower.
 
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