Is this idea CRAZY or not

[carbineone]

I have this 1974 Evinrude Norseman 40HP and it does not have the through the tube steering mounting like the newer motors.I have this tube from a 50HP junk parts motor in the pic and was thinking of boring a through hole bigger in the transom mount and putting this tube in it to make it a modern steering mount motor and drilling a couple new grease zerk holes.Anyone ever try this or think it will work? Or am I NUTS? What ya think...The motor will not work on my little Invader without the through the motor tube so its worthless to me if I cannot accomplish this..Thanks

 

[1fishbone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

People have made mounts for this...think about...it will come to you!!
A bracket or two to hold the main body of the steering tube and a mount on the engine.

Drilling the base mount will significantly weaken it.

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

If you are talking about the aftermarket mounts made by such people as Teleflex there is no system made that will work on my little Invader..I will include a pic of one I actually have that would surely work on other larger boats but the little Invader is just way to small in the Splashwell for them to work without cutting major holes in the boat for clearance and travel issues which I definitley do not want to do/The only option is a through the tube steering which I currently have now on the motor I am using currently.Theres another type made also that is a swivel by teleflex and it will not work either..This is the only option if possible.I do not think it would weaken it.Theres plenty of meat there so to speak..This is not a big deal as I can continue to use the motor I have now but I think this 40 would be better suited to the boat if something like this can be done...Thanks

 

[yorab]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

The most important thing is that the linkages are not weakened to the point that any components fail while under stress due to the forces exerted on them by the water pressure on the motor. It should not matter whether your setup is a common setup or even if has been done at all before. It should only matter that the rig is safe and does the intended job-to steer the motor. Without knowing the exact forces on the components or the dimensions of the components, it's impossible to say whether it is safe and won't break.

I also made a homemade steering setup for my boat. I used common sense and made a guess as to whether the setup was strong enough. I definitely tried to err on the side of safety and my steering system has worked well for me.

I guess the point is that you must make the final decision on whether your setup is safe and try it out. You may be pleasantly surprised as I was.

 

[1fishbone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

If you are talking about the aftermarket mounts made by such people as Teleflex there is no system made that will work on my little Invader..I will include a pic of one I actually have that would surely work on other larger boats but the little Invader is just way to small in the Splashwell for them to work without cutting major holes in the boat for clearance and travel issues which I definitley do not want to do/The only option is a through the tube steering which I currently have now on the motor I am using currently.Theres another type made also that is a swivel by teleflex and it will not work either..This is the only option if possible.I do not think it would weaken it.Theres plenty of meat there so to speak..This is not a big deal as I can continue to use the motor I have now but I think this 40 would be better suited to the boat if something like this can be done...Thanks

I meant to fabricate one, finding something to EXACTLY fit might be near impossible, finding multiple solutions is ALWAYS available...
"I fabricate/weld...therefor I can"

Here's one I did find from tashasdaddy:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=245049&
highlight=teleflex+mount

Yorab...can you post a picture?

 

[F_R]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

carbine, normally I would agree that your idea is crazy. But I might just be crazy enough to try it too. I looked at a motor today, and it just might work, but not a simple drill it out and go.

The first thing you are going to give up is the tilt lock release. The holes where you are contemplating boring out are quite large already, so you might get away with it without a huge amount of material removal. The hole in one side of the swivel bracket is now about 3/4", the other side is small. Both the stern brackets and swivel bracket have large cone-shaped recesses on the inside. You will also have to bore the two plastic friction cones. Finally, there will be no place to put the big nuts securing the tilt tube. You probably will have to fabricate and weld some flats on the stern brackets.

Hey, what have you got to lose? Oh yeah. the motor and possibly the boat..or worse. PLEASE be careful and abandon the idea if any doubt at all. And don't say I said it is ok, because I didn't.

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Hey ifishbone.I have everything to do it that way sitting here but the problem is you had long open transom there to work with.That would be very simple on a open transom like the one you pictured but I have a very narrow splashwell to work within and no way that will work without cutting out the back of the boat to get clearance..

I am alway doing somewhat off the wall fabricating to make stuff work and I am still here.LOL

I just thought for sure someone would have thought of modifying the old cable and pulley motors in this way and tried it..I am going to do some more research.As far as the nuts not fitting in there properly I was just going to put bushings to make up for that problem as the tube from the 50HP is plenty long to do so...its also true that I would have to modify the lock release but thats minor and very easy to do so...

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Even if you did chop your motor up to accept a tilt tube, you would still have to deal with the steering arm and cable ram, so you would have the same space issue.

The setup that TD did, is not typical of the conversion bracket in his photo. Note that he raised his transom height and mounted the conversion bracket under his motor. For that style bracket, the transom clamps on the motor normally are placed directly on the bracket. You may want to consider that, and decide whether or not it would work for you. If you think a tilt tube equipped motor would work, the conversion bracket should too. It would also be a much safer arrangement.



???

 

[levi_tsk]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

cant you just swap the whole clamp that holds the motor on the boat out *** for tat????? id rather have to modify the junk part than to tear up a good motor -you know? and if i couldnt make that work id see about getting that "parts " motor running

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Thanks Jay but I would not have the same problem.I have a tilt tube motor on it now and it works fine but the gearing of the 50HP thats on it now is not the best for my little Invader.The 40HP would actually outperform the 50HP on it..I will have to show a pic of my current setup so everyone can see why this is the only option on my particuliar Boat..Just ignore the raised transom as I would not need that with the shortshaft motor..The top of the transom runs staright across the top so to speak so I would have no clearance issues with the linkage at all if the motor had the tilt tube as the one I have on it now does.As you can see my splashwell is very narrow so nothing can possibly be mounted down in there at all,I do not care how its made it is just not possible.Everything has to ride above the transom top and it will with a tube motor.Levi I looked into changing the whole mount also and it appears it would not work....Thanks

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Your photo explains the problem. That said, you don't have a gearing problem with the 50hp motor, you have a prop problem. If set up properly, the 40hp motor is not going to outperform a well running 50hp motor.

The acceptable WOT rpm range for your 50hp Rude is probably 4,500 to 5,500 rpm. Confirm this and go find a prop that will allow the motor to spin at 5,500 rpm when the motor is at WOT. If you do that, you should have plenty of hole shot and a higher top end than the 40hp motor would push the boat.



???

 

[stupiddog]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

If you get that 40 rigged and working, that Invader will be a blast! Had a lot of fun in one of those in the 70's.

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Hey StupidDog,its already a blast with the 50HP,I have owned large boats both IO and OB and none have been as FUN as this little thing.Pulls a tube with several people on it and works great for Skiing too.

Jay from what I have been told back last year here on Iboats when I was setting this 50HP up on the boat the 1974 Lark has some strange Gearing like not many other boat motors.It is like 2.66 and I was told when I was messing around with differant props,and I have several in differant pitches and material,that the gearing of the 50HP lark is just not good for a small Speedboat Application and they use way to big of a heavy diameter prop and the 40HP Evinrude Norseman would be a much better choice.What I was told may be wrong but this was from a Member here that appears to be the resident GURU on prop selection and motor setup.I can see the 40HP performing better in theory just because of the use of a smaller diameter and lighter prop..You hear everyones theorys and some may be wrong and I guess you do not know till you try.
The boat now runs out great and can pull anything but I can only get a Topend of around 30 running my 17 prop and around 34 on GPS with a 19.Any taller prop and I lose way too much takeoff to get on Plane.Anyway still have not decided on wether to chop the old motor and give this a try...Thanks

 

[levi_tsk]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

reprop the 50

 

[1946Zephyr]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Well, in order to use the 40, you may have to just use the older style cable and pulley type steering set up. From what I can guess, it was originally set up with that anyway.

What is the level of the prop on that 50, in relation with the keel of the "invader?"

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Hey 1846,the cavitation plate runs just a little above the keel,thats the way I understand it should be from asking about setting up the 50 last year here.Yes you are correct it was originally a cable pulley setup.I am sure those setups are fine as they worked for years and that is what was on it when I got the boat,but I am not a Fan of that system at all but some like them fine...

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

If that boat only does 34 mph with a 50hp outboard on it, something is wrong. I knew a guy back in the day that had either the same boat, or one that is nearly identical, with a Chrysler 55hp on it. I'm not sure of the exact speed (no GPS units around in those days), but I'm certain that it was much faster than 34 mph. I would say that 55 - 60 mph would be a good guess.

As for the gearing issue, the prop is the final "gear." I could see some drag with a larger LU and prop, but not enough to result in your boat only doing 34 mph. Heck, I have a 17.5 foot Glassmaster that has an old Johnson 65hp motor and I get 29 mph by GPS, with a 15" pitch prop. I would think that you should also be able to use more pitch than 19". If the hole shot problem is related to the fact that you want to be able to tow several people on a tube, that really is a specific issue that has to do with altering your performance expectation from pure top end, to pulling capability. Its just a compromise that you will have to accept.



???

 

[F_R]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

The only way you are going to get that kind of speed out of the Norseman is over a waterfall. The 50 will make the Norse 40 look stupid, performance-wise. The 50 has a much larger gearcase and prop, but it is way better at getting through the water.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

carabineone, can you post pics of your boat? Even the transom set up looks interesting. I for one use the old cable systems and have no problem with them. A tad sloppy, but not really an issue.

 

[carbineone]

Re: Is this idea CRAZY or not

Heres a pic or two of my Boat..I am going to stick with the 50HP and maybe keep the 40HP around if I run into a project boat or throw it up on Craigslist if I get tired of it sitting around..

I think what would be a big plus is to have a Power tilt unit,that I think would do wonders for me but I do not know if theres such a thing that could be adapted to a 1974 50HP lark or not...