issues with a 1987 johnson 225

[dannysoto]

Hi;
I have 3 issues i would like some help with regarding my engine(i just bought this 23 ft. Wellcraft 2 months ago).First, I have noticed that when I first pump the primer bulb, it gets pretty firm. After the engine starts and runs a while, I noticed that the bulb gets really soft, barely feel any fuel in it, although the engine stays running, just slightly hesitant in mid range.Second,this engine does not start normally(turn key,only when warmed up). I got to prime it then give it throttle for it to start. Otherwise, it will turn and "pop" with some smoke but won't start unless I use almost full throttle. Last, these engines came with a power steering system thats linked directly to the engine with a pump and pully with hydrolic hoses connected to the steering linkage on this engine. Well, even full of oil, it is pretty hard to steer to starboard although not that hard to steer to port. When I disconnected the hydrolics hoses from the steering system itself, the engine is much easier to steer, so I know its not the cable or linkage or engine pivot. I belive there may be a problem in the return hoses or something(there is strong pressure coming from pump). Other than that this engine has run pretty strong at wot, has 90 psi compression exactly on all cylinders, just recently had the carbs cleaned, new fuel filter, new fuel/water separator and installed new plugs set to.40 (as per the manual) as this engine was running rough at first and barley idling.I bought the siloc manual to work on it myself, but this manual is pretty much general and not as detailed as I wished, and would like to make this engine run and steer like almost new. My want to try to sync and time it as well and adjust the idle but as I said, the manual is very general , confusing and no exact pics of adjusting screws. Any good advice would be appreciated. Thanx guys.

 

[david_r]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

the bulb will go soft after the engine is running........ when it doesnt pump up hard or gets sucked flat is when you should start to worry.

when you say "prime it" do you mean with the key or you prime it manually?

as for the steering im not up to par on marine hydraulic steering....... sorry.

is your steering hard while underway or just anytime?

is your skeg bent?

what postion is the trim tab in?....... its the little fin under the anti-cavitation plate just behind the prop.

 

[jonesg]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

Except for the steering issue the other issues are kinda normal.

They like to be wet to fire up when cold,
have you tried pushing the ignition key in?,
that activates the choke solenoid.

Give it a couple of good shots after pumping up the bulb, turn the key and give occasional pumps with the choke until it fires, then keep it running with an occasional push of the key for the first 30 seconds til it starts to warm up.

Do you know how to advance the throttle without engaging the gears?


Get yourself the genuine factory manual , much better than seloc etc.
www.outboardbooks.com
You'll find the answer to the steering issue in the factory manual, its devoted to your engine only. You can do all the work yourself with simple tools mostly.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

I agree with david on all the points.
You may still have a small carb problem tho with the mid range circuit.

As to the starting, Mine runs perfectly fine and somtimes i still have to use the warm up to get it to fire when it has just been running. So that just may be a quirk of your motor.

Your compression is a bit on the low side. Above 100 is perfered. 120 to 130 is best.

I dont know anything about the power steering, but if it is fine with out it, then why use it?
It does sound like a valve is not centered and may need a qualified person to look at it.

My best advice is, "Dont over think the problem".

Good luck,,

 

[dannysoto]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

Well I was thinking about just disconnecting the power steering system all together (they did the same with the vro) and run it without. I'm assuming that when the engine is not running the steering on this engine should be a bit hard, but when it's running it's still a bit harder than it should be. The skeg is not bent and the trim tab is centered. I just guess it's some valve or filter thats clogged or pump may be bad, but if it wont be a problem, i'll just go with steering with the cable instead. As to the prime issue I was refering to priming the bulb by hand. I was just concerned it wasn't holding enough fuel in and sending it back thru bad check valves. In regards to the timing and sync I have no idea how it's done correctly for this particular engine I just got the basic specs at to what the timing should be both at idle and wot according to seloc. I been told however that 90 psi of compression for this engine is not that bad considering it's 22 years old, and that it runs pretty strong. I'm just trying now to get it as properly tuned as I can.

 

[david_r]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

your book should have a link and sync section in it........ even though it is seloc........ factory is the only way to go, those cheaper ones cover too many years and models and as you have seen are a little vague on some of the important stuff.

if you havent turned that little stopper under the flywheel your timing hasnt changed..... and should still be ok.


when you apply throttle you advance the timing as well as opening the carbs.

its basically making sure your carbs are operating at the exact same time in the exact same position and that they dont open until you reach the correct amount of advanced timing........... its fairly simple once you understand where the marks are...... the first time i did it i got the carbs opening a little too soon and the engine didnt want to idle and sneezed a lot.

do not turn the little rubber stopper under the flywheel at all. it could lead to engine failure. if you suspect the wide open throttle timing is off you can find the at home procedure in the frequently asked questions section.

 

[dannysoto]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

Thanx david. I think was trying to refer to idle spark advance an I made it sound like wot timing[, but i will get the factory manual for this engine to make things easy. As with the steering, I'm gonna disconnect the hydrolics and run it on cable to see if steering is a problem as in turning too quikly or lack of control.As I said, this engine had been running strong but had a problem with idle and starting up.I discovered today, that the contacts on the coils where the power pack wires connect to were really dirty and semi-corroded so I cleaned them up with some sand paper,and scraped the insides of the wires with a small screw driver and plugged them up. Started the engine and felt a better idle. I guess whoever had this boat wasn't using it much or wasn't really doing any maintenance on it. I'll keep checking things and get it all right. I got this boat to take out my sick tough as nails wife who's fighting what the doc says its terminal colorectal cancer(for the past 4 years), and this is why I joined you guys as I am determined to get this]engine running as good as I can so we can spend great times together with the kids. Thanx guys for your advice and please, no matter what your age, gender, race or whatever, get yourselves and your family checked periodically for cancer. It's not an old persons disease, and it can strike anyone at any time, and mostly we find out a bit too late.

 

[Bifflefan]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

I been told however that 90 psi of compression for this engine is not that bad considering it's 22 years old,

Just as a reference mine 35 years old and has 118,118,119,120 for compression.

 

[david_r]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

i am truly sorry to hear about your wife.

our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

i dont know if you have made it down to the dock side chat forum but its a pretty cool place to hang out. this is a family oriented site, and people on here really care about each other.

its a great site for help on anything and i mean anything.

the trouble with idle and with starting could be a lot of things.

what do your plugs loo like?...... are they oily or kind of dry or clean like they havent hardly been used?

have you ever done a de-carb?
i did one after having some idle problems and it helped a lot.... smoother and everything, and i even rebuilt the carbs and turned up the idle a little but it still didnt idle as well as after i got done with the de-carb. you need to de-carb about once a year unless you put around a whole lot and allow the eng to load up and fowl the plugs...

if you have a good blue spark that will jump a 1/4-7/16" gap on all the cyls and your idle rpms are to specs then i would say you need to rebuild the carbs...

could also be water in the fuel. do you have a water/fuel separator? ......... i have had water problems before so i always ask if people have them----- they work.

the only problem i can think of with your power steering is if it is anything like a car it will be hard to turn....... hopefully you will get lucky.

the bad part is i think it has power steering because of torque..... 225hp is a lot of juice, you may have to back out of the throttle some to be able to turn it very sharp.

heres a link that will help a lot if you havent already found it
http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=31

it has everything.. like decarb instrutions, carb cleaning, etc.......

 

[dannysoto]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

I think I found part of the problem I'm having with this engine, which more and more looks like it just hasn't been used much or hasn't been well maintained. The last wire from the port power pack that connects to the last coil, the end with the boot was just about dangling when I removed it from the coil. When I pressed on that defect with my fingernail right behing the rubber boot it cut off completely. I stripped some of the wire off on both ends and found that the inside wire was corroded pretty good with some rusty orange colored stuff. I stripped more wire off and cleaned the ends good, then I soldered the ends together and used a rubber coating for electric wires and taped it up. I connected this wire back to the coil. Next day I went to start the engine again, and without any priming or choking the cold engine at all (just turn key) it started right up, an ran pretty good. I guess I will end up replacing the power packs since maybe these wires may all be pretty corroded. I guess I'm gonna go ahead with a de-carb, and hopefully I will get a smoother idle and smoother acceleration as I feel it still a bit rough. Whats the best de-carb product and will this improve my engines compression and idle as I suspect dirty sticky rings and lots of carbon?

 

[diver_down]

Re: issues with a 1987 johnson 225

if it's a V6 than about 90 compression is GOOD, 80 is not bad as well, they came with a 5/1 or 6/1 compression from factory which would be around 70-84 PSI not considering other factors.