It never ends!

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

FOOL ME TWICE!

Well, I'm pretty embarrassed to admit this, but after so many people offered helpful advice, I gotta fess up.

On my way home from work this morning (I work nights), I realized that the problem was very similar to the problem I had last time. And that it was getting progressively worse.

Decided to check the distro and see if it had been tweaked in the engine pull.

Sure enough, tweaked, and loose as the day is long. Looked to be over 20 degrees retarded by the time I figured it out...

Anyway, it's fixed, and running fine again.

I think I totally mislead myself into thinking it was a fuel issue, based on the fact that there was ALSO a fuel issue right at first... :redface::redface::redface:

Thanks again guys!

BTW, EFI is STILL happening this fall.

 

[Don S]

Re: It never ends!

If you have all these problems with a simple carb and distributor setup, I can just imagine what can (and probably will) go wrong with an EFI setup.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: It never ends!

From what I gather it ran fine before you pulled it to do the oil pan. So the one thing that you messed with was fuel line connections. double and triple check them all. What you describe sounds exactly like starvation from sucking air.

Don't ask me how I know.

And that means check EVERY connection from the tank to the carb, even if you didn't remove a clamp. They get bumped and can come loose

M

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

If you have all these problems with a simple carb and distributor setup, I can just imagine what can (and probably will) go wrong with an EFI setup.

Considering that EFI is what I feel at home with, I'm feeling alright about it.

Thanks though.

Maybe I'm misreading you, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't much like me, Don. Was it something I said?

From what I gather it ran fine before you pulled it to do the oil pan. So the one thing that you messed with was fuel line connections. double and triple check them all. What you describe sounds exactly like starvation from sucking air.

Don't ask me how I know.

And that means check EVERY connection from the tank to the carb, even if you didn't remove a clamp. They get bumped and can come loose

M

Thanks for the tips. I actually solved the problem. Turned out to be a tweaked distributor, as described a couple of posts up.

 

[Don S]

Re: It never ends!

Maybe I'm misreading you, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't much like me, Don. Was it something I said?

I think you are REALLY misreading me. There are very few here that are comfortable around EFI, I just didn't realize you were.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

Hey, as long as we're cool!

I'm a young guy (24). Worked for a few years as a mechanic, and as I said, never had a carb apart (except motorcycle carbs). I've already spent a few years wrenching, had my fill of the dishonesty in the industry, and moved on to bigger and better (though not necessarily as fun) things.

Maybe it's just a generation gap, but carbs just never appealed to me. Never learned to work on them, because there were very few vehicles still running carbs that ever came into our shop. Even if they had, the "disposable" society we live in, would have dictated that it would be cheaper just to order a new carb and slap it on there for them, than to "waste" the time rebuilding it. I can dial in a new carb as well as the next guy.

At $80-$100/hr, carb rebuilds are now left to specialty shops.

I'm not an idiot, though some of my recent posts might indicate otherwise. I know my way around vehicles and engines. Just not the older setups, so much.

Also, this is my first boat.

 

[mcleaves]

Re: It never ends!

Thanks for the tips. I actually solved the problem. Turned out to be a tweaked distributor, as described a couple of posts up.

Yeah I just saw that. Somehow I missed there were two pages to the thread .. Doh!

M

 

[MikDee]

Re: It never ends!

Well, I'm really glad you found out what it was, and was able to fix it easily! I'm sure we all screwed up once in awhile, at least it doesn't appear you did much damage, good luck with the fuel injection, you'll need it at all different altitudes

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

Just spent an awesome evening on the lake. Wakeboarded better than I ever have before (first time behind this boat).

It's crazy how much power this boat has. Just give it 1/2 throttle, and it'll pop a wakeboarder right outta the water in under 2 seconds!

Gets on plane SUPER fast.

WOOOOO HOOOOO!

3 hours of fun, just about makes the countless hours I've spent on this boat seem worth it.

Hopefully I can get more out of it than that though. [knock on wood]

 

[MikDee]

Re: It never ends!

Good for You! So, Whats top speed, with that 290hp crate motor? and what prop are you using?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

To be honest, I don't know what prop is on there. Just whatever was on the boat when I bought it.

Don't want to go top speed just yet, because the engine's still not broken in. But it easily hits 45 at about 3/4 throttle. I'll be it does over 55 as it is.

What impresses me about this engine most, is not so much the Horsepower, as the torque.

You probably remember the thread where I posted this a few weeks back.

It's got ~300 ft lbs all through the power band! I'll look at the prop, and see what's on there.

I did notice that at wakeboarding speeds (18-20), the bow tended to come back up after planing.

It was kinda tricky to keep it on plane, and going slow enough to keep the boarder happy. You think a different prop would help?

 

[MikDee]

Re: It never ends!

To be honest, I don't know what prop is on there. Just whatever was on the boat when I bought it.

Don't want to go top speed just yet, because the engine's still not broken in. But it easily hits 45 at about 3/4 throttle. I'll be it does over 55 as it is.

I See, sure enough, break it in gently,,, a 350/260hp can prob. do 55 in that boat, that bad boy should do about 60.
Shoot, my old 79'- 20' SeaRay bowrider with a 305/228hp would do 48 regularly, 50 one time with a new alum 14x19" Black Max prop.
You probably should be in the range of a 21" or 23" pitch prop, more speed, but you'll prob. lose a bit of hole shot.

What impresses me about this engine most, is not so much the Horsepower, as the torque.

You're probably underpropped, that's why.

You probably remember the thread where I posted this a few weeks back.

It's got ~300 ft lbs all through the power band! I'll look at the prop, and see what's on there.

I did notice that at wakeboarding speeds (18-20), the bow tended to come back up after planing.

It was kinda tricky to keep it on plane, and going slow enough to keep the boarder happy. You think a different prop would help?

I'd say Smart Tabs, or that forbidden word around here (a Hydrofoil, like a Doel Fin, at least temporarily)

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

Well, now that you mention it, there IS a hydrofoil on it. I didn't realize that it wasn't part of the drive. But it looks like it's a Sting Ray brand? It's got a little chip off the Starboard corner, but it doesn't SEEM to me like it should have a significant effect on performance, but I don't know...

Maybe I'll try pulling it off, and see how the boat behaves without it. Why are they a "forbidden word" around here? Do they cause problems?

I went and looked at the prop, and it's a Stainless Quicksilver Mirage, with the stamping on the side: Quicksilver 48 13700 A41 19P

I'm guessing that the "19p" means that it's a 19" pitch?

I'm really not too interested in top speed, because this boat was purchased for water sports, rather than "cruising". I really don't have cause to do over 50 or so...

But if I can still have decent hole-shot, and maybe make the throttle a bit less twitchy, I might try a steeper pitch when it comes time to replace this one. Whachu think?

 

[ziggy]

Re: It never ends!

i had a hydofoil on my last boat.... all it did for me was break my ventilation plate when i hit something on the river.... took it off and never looked back.... i don't like the way the lift at the drive either... seems like undo stress in the wrong place to me... tabs lift the boat. foils lift the drive and the boat via the drive...

i have personal concern about running a ss prop on a 1 drive. perhaps i'm to paranoid. but as you know. our one drives have a oring groove in the lower drive shaft. i do run the river where there is debrit. i run alminum because i'd rather ruin a prop than have my lower drive shaft snap off. don't know if my idea is good though. my dad ran aluminum on his boat with a 1 drive and he snapped off a drive shaft in a strike... so maybe it don't make any difference. but that's why i run aluminm.... sure would think ya could run a bigger screw though... 19P with all your hp. i bet she does leap out of the water.....

 

[MikDee]

Re: It never ends!

Well, now that you mention it, there IS a hydrofoil on it. I didn't realize that it wasn't part of the drive. But it looks like it's a Sting Ray brand? It's got a little chip off the Starboard corner, but it doesn't SEEM to me like it should have a significant effect on performance, but I don't know...

Maybe I'll try pulling it off, and see how the boat behaves without it. Why are they a "forbidden word" around here? Do they cause problems?

I went and looked at the prop, and it's a Stainless Quicksilver Mirage, with the stamping on the side: Quicksilver 48 13700 A41 19P

I'm guessing that the "19p" means that it's a 19" pitch?

I'm really not too interested in top speed, because this boat was purchased for water sports, rather than "cruising". I really don't have cause to do over 50 or so...

But if I can still have decent hole-shot, and maybe make the throttle a bit less twitchy, I might try a steeper pitch when it comes time to replace this one. Whachu think?

Yep, it's a Stingray alright, and it's much too big! A Doel Fin is smaller, and much more in proportion to your boat. That thing will help you get up on plane, but it has a lot of drag after that. I'm surprised you say you get a lot of bow lift at low planing speeds, Unless that's causing it, by overdoing the effects?

Personally I like them for certain situations, but one that big, I don't know it may be overkill?
Ziggy has given you a few of the drawbacks, but to each his own.

The Mirage is a good prop, One of the better ones, but with that 19" pitch you're prob way underpropped! Thats what I had on my 305/228hp, IMO, a 21' pitch is for a 350/260hp, and a 23" pitch (approx.) is for your 350/290hp! This is Not Bible, but pretty close. No wonder you have so much torque, you need to make sure you don't overrev it, and burn out your engine, or drive.
Once you are fully broken in, it's gonna be some trial, & error, to find the right prop.

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

Thanks, I'll try removing/different hydrofoil and see what difference it makes.

Not sure what this boat will rev up to, since I haven't tried, but I imagine it would be pretty easy to over-rev.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to convince the wife that we need to drop another $400 on a new prop, when this one is still in such good shape (it has a couple of dings, but nothing that wouldn't be easily repaired).

Anybody wanna trade?

 

[Uraijit]

Re: It never ends!

UPDATE:

Alright, this Saturday was my wife's birthday, so we spent the day at the lake with a bunch of friends. Being that my boat is closed bow, we could only seat 7 people (including pilot). With 6 people in the boat, and one in the water, the boat would not plane under 22mph.

There were 8 people there anyway, so we just started doing it in shifts, with 4 people at a time.

The boat planed much easier with fewer people, at about 18mph. Still a little too fast for some of the learning wake-boarders.

I was driving the boat pretty much non-stop all day, so I didn't have the time (honestly didn't think of it) to pull off the hydrofoil to try it that way, but I'm pretty much sold on the idea that I need some Smart tabs

The boat ran like a raped ape all day long though! Thanks again to everybody for all of your help, to get me to this point--with 4-6 weeks of boatable weather left in the year!

WOOHOO!

 

[MikDee]

Re: It never ends!

Glad it all worked out good for you, but you've got to get that particular hydrofoil off there, it like dragging an anchor it's so big! Or, take a hack saw, & cut off about 4" on each end of that one, it's overkill!
The right pitch reasonably priced, aluminum 4 blade prop would do wonders when you have a load, and want a slower planing speed.

 

[tjhawk]

Re: It never ends!

I have a four blade prop on my boat and while I lost my top end by a few mph I can plane at 17-20 mph and my bow stays down. I am not a fan of hydrofoils as they cause drag and really don't work in my opinion.