% J/E & Merc posts

[LubeDude]

It would seem that there were nearly as many Mercurys sold as J/Es! Why are there nearly double the amount of posts for J/E! Ive always felt that they were about equaly dependable!

 

[OBJ]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Good question Dude.....it would seem, from the number of posts (ain't really tried to count) on each forum, there was more Johnny/Rudes sold than Mercs????

 

[Link]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Could it be that there are more older J/E still in working condition?? <br />The other thing to look at is unlike the auto trade where there are 10 dealers in every town, in the marine business there may be only one dealership for several counties. If it happens to be a OMC dealer then 90% of the boats in four or five counties will be OMC or Vice versa with Merc.<br />Just a thought / ?

 

[OBJ]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Good point Link....I bet for every "old" Johnson or Evinrude I get in, and I get a lot of the older 5's and 10's cause of the restricted lakes, I may get only one older Merc. Fact, I don't recall getting anything ever in an Merc that old.......take that back.....guy brought in a Merc one time that when you wanted to go in reverse, you restarted the engine counterclockwise. Wild!

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

They reckon the old Mercs are a "Simple" design. Maybe, that means less replies to each post.<br />It's either terminate or fix. Whereas, the J/E's might need more discussion the find the cause.

 

[JB]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Moving to General Outboard Discussions.

 

[alcan]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Here is my two cents worth. Figure it like this, Johnson motors, Evinrude motors and Mercury motors.Are the posts about equal now? I've heard guys arguing all my life which motor was better, a Johnson or Evinrude.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

It's kinda funny if ya think about it....Johnny and 'Rude started separate, joined hands, and now represent 2 different engines......<br />I think everyone thought for awhile that merc built mariner, but funny thing the mariner had alot of interchangable parts with Yammy.....Hmmm......

 

[Link]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

alcan <br />

I've heard guys arguing all my life which motor was better, a Johnson or Evinrude. <br />

LOL yea me too <br /><br />walleyehed <br />

I think everyone thought for awhile that merc built mariner

Someone please bring me up to speed. <br />Not trying to get to far off topic LubeDude <br />I got out of the marine business 10 years ago and I know a lot of things have changed. I'm pretty sure I could go out to my 1990 Mariner and scrape the grey paint off with a jack knife and it would be shiny black under it??<br /><br />Or am I wet behind the ears here again.. Thanks

 

[walleyehed]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

I think for the most part, you're right, but all fuel line fittings were mariner-yamaha, and merc was different.

 

[Link]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

LubeDude <br />Just another thought on the Merc's vrs Johnson<br />On the older motors when reed valves needed replaced I "Think" with Johnyrudes you just took the carbs off and you where there!<br />With the in line Mercs you had to take the whole crank apart and it was often a 1500-2000 dollar repair job. <br />Seems to me I remember our instructer (who hated merc) said that it was usually the block it's self that wore a oval ring on the crank do to the pressure always being in one direction and they were made of Alum.<br /><br />Correct me if I'm wrong as I always enjoy learning<br /><br />Just another thought / ?

 

[walleyehed]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Hey Link, were the in-line mercs "rotary valve" then?????? Hence the crank removal?????<br />Makes sense...

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

There were alot more Johnson/Evinrudes sold than any other model. Especially the smaller models. Also, there are many more still running than the old mercs. That could account for the many posts on them..

 

[JasonJ]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

It isn't that bad to swap reed valves out on an inline Merc. You do not have to mess with the crank or any of that, you just pull the powerhead, split the case, unbolt the reeds, put the new ones on, and reassemble. If you are being charges 1500 to have reeds replaced, then you need to look for another shop. That being said, you don't have to remove the carbs or any of that. I needed to reseal the case on an old inline 6 Merc I had, and I had the powerhead off, split, sealed, and back on in an afternoon. Didn't even have to touch the carbs. It isn't that hard to work on Mercs. <br /><br />Mercury was always a more performance oriented motor, meant to blaze across the water wide open all day long. It appealed to the speed set. Johnyrudes were happier not running wide open all day. You could putt around if you wanted, they apealed to the fishermen/casual boaters. You can do that with a Merc as well, but they do like to be above 3500 rpms. As to which one was a more quality motor, that will always be as debatable as Ford vs Chevy. All I can say is I have never owned a Merc built after 69, and they have always ran great. In my opinion, if it is cared for, it doesn't matter which one made it. I see more johnyrudes around than old Mercs, but that is fine, as I tend to be passing those johnyrudes anyway. I myself am biased towards Merc...

 

[OBJ]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

I really think that a big part of "like" for a certain make is what you grew up with. Maybe not all the time but I think the majority of folks that have boated or have been around boating all their life started with one make and just stuck to it. I'm a real good example. Started out with a Rude way back in 19somethinsomething. Mainly cause my Pop had it. Tried a Chrysler once. Even rebuilt it.....once. Me and Pop even tried a Merc once. Just didn't like it. Back to OMC.

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Let me see if I can add a thought or two here:<br />Through up to '70s J & E had 70-75% of the outboard market. There are a whole lot more J & E<br />"out in the field", a good many 1950's models, and a good many 1960's are still used today. The number of Mercs of the same time, not restored is very small. There were alot more dealers selling a lot more engines then there is today.<br />The old mercs were not a simple design on average,<br />they were more compact, harder to get to parts,the<br />direct reversing (dock climbers) engines, 75's, 78's, and 800's-took some skill to set the points right. The general public never took to Carl's idea that an engine did not need a neutral, start in forward kill it and start in reverse. Try to find somebody to replace the water pump in the auto transmisson 22 hp.<br />Merc had a deal with Yamaha to make engines like 40hp and down-100% Yamaha. FTC shot the deal down after a few years and Merc went back to making Mariner-kinda like when Merc bought Bayliner and got Force (Chrysler) in the deal, every year they got more Merc-retized until it was all the same. They quit selling Mariner in the US in 1998, but still export some models.<br />What is killing a lot of Mercs and others nowadays<br />is that the wiring harness and componet wires like the stator and trigger, rectifier is turning<br />to green dust and its not worth a bunch of money to bring back to life. See a lot of this up to mid to late 1970's.<br />Reed valve problems seem to have a lock on Merc, even today along with a long history of stator problems. OMC's rarely had a reed problem.<br />And while J&E have been the fishing motor of choice since 1908,in performance you have to pick your battles, the 3 cylinder J&E have always blown Merc away, stock or raced.The V-8 was pretty much in a class of it's own, and who holds the world record at 176 mph-big E. Merc's 2.5L is the most developed V-6 you can buy. OMC never consistancy backed, for any long lenght of time, a strong factory effort. Merc has developed product for many classes and is the only factory presence in racing today and has been there for 50 years. Bombardier races everything they make except outboards. Can we be too far away on outboards?<br />Backfire

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Backfire.... Very informative. So what was the reason for Merc making Mariner? Were they trying to appeal to fisherman by making Mariner, and why did they stop making them? Also do they still make Force engines? I have seen newer ones around and noticed that they don't look quite like the old Chrysler ones.<br /><br />OBJ...I agree with you about liking what you grew up with. My father, uncle, cousins and friends always had OMC's, so it was the only make I ever worked on and got to know. I never had much experience with Merc's but was never like, Merc's suck OMC rules, I just always preferred OMC because that was what I knew and was comfortable with. Whenever I took a look at a Merc it wasn't familiar so I always just stuck with what I knew. I have to say though, at the New York National Boat Show this month Merc put on a great display,(way better than Bombardier), and I was pretty impressed with it and got alot of reading material from them that was really interesting. Even so I know I will always stick with OMC(Bombardier), after spending an hour at that Merc display, even though I was a little let down with the OMC booth, all it took was one look at the E-tec and talking to the rep, and I thought alot less about the Merc booth.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Oh by the way Backfire, at the show they had a boat on display with a 300hp Evinrude on it (dark blue), that had an American flag swoop going across the cover and looked awesome. So maybe this is Bombardier's attempt to get into racing. It was in the lobby and there was nobody around it so I couldn't find out the details about it.

 

[Tracy Coleman]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

Back when Merc started, Johnson and Evinrude were two different lines of outboards. Same company but all the pieces were different. Into the 1950's, J and E were sharing more and more parts and by 1956 things were down to a few differences and color. Economy on making twice as many of fewer parts, able to have two dealers-or more in a town gave Merc more competition than they wanted. So the way to double the dealers is to have another motor line that can get more exposure, more volume-lower cost each. Mariner, made by Yamaha 40hp and down, larger engines made by Merc. Didn't quite work as well as planned, as outboard volume has declined since the '70's, Yamaha wound up being a competitor, with J & E Honda, Suzuki, Nisson, etc... The market share of others cut volumes even more to the point having two lines was more costly than just one-exit Mariner. Force evolved to all Merc with Merc decals. Like GM with Olds,too much competion. Best chance to see something new will be the Miami Boat Show-?<br />Backfire

 

[AW]

Re: % J/E & Merc posts

There was a time when I thought JE / Merc preference was based on what your father had. Then a few of us got Mercs. The one thing that got our attention was Mercs had absolutely zero tolerance for water in the fuel. Looking back that explains why Mercs always seemed to have a big fuel filter / water separator, while JE boats rarely did. Whenever one of my Johnson's wouldn't run due to water there was no gas in the carburetor bowl at all. All water.