Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

[ivan77]

Hi All,

I have been having an issue where the engine is jumping out of forward gear. I read about the clutch dog and forward gear on the forum. I took apart the lower unit the other day, and took some pics. Is this clutch dog and forward gear the problem, or might it be the pinion gear that has the teeth broken?



Also, when reinstalling the screw into the connector for the lower shift rod, I guess that I have to align the shift rod so that the divit in it is perfectly aligned with the connector hole? My friend was reefing on the screw, and the few couple of threads were stripped, when I took a look and realized that the divit in the shift rod was not aligned with the connector hole.

Also, where do I get cheap parts?

As a side note, I just realized that I have a bunch of friends in machining. could I get them to machine the forward gear and clutch dog?


Ivan

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

I cannot really see the ears good enough on the pics to determine if they are still good. Possibly another couple pics at different angles? As you know, that pinion is toast.

Correct, the divit has to be exactly centered in the hole of the connectore before installing the bolt.

The gear and dog can be repaired, but have not heard of much long term success from this. It usually has to be done again and again. I would prefer to find a good gearset if it were mine.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Thanks HighTrim.
I took about 10 pics, and unfortuantetly these were the best. I'm going to be going up to see the engine in a week or so, so I'll try to take better pics.

I think I will try to source some good used gears.

After I finish this round of repairs, I will post about my experience with the engine.

Ivan

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi,

So I was able to find some new gears, and reinstalled them. Problem still remains that the motor is jumping out of gear. even when teh engine is off, when I move it from neutral to forward, it catches some of the time, but does not catchs other times. By that I mean if I put it in forward, it will lock, like it is engaged, but when I shift it back and forth, it does not engage all the time.

Is there something else that I may be missing here?

Ivan

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Are you spinning the propeller by hand when shifting gears with the engine off? If things aren't aligned properly, the clutch dog won't slide all the way in when shifting - it could be hitting the high spot of the lobe, rather than the gap between them...

In any case, check all linkages along the way for play or excess movement. The clutch dog in your pic did appear to have some wear on the leading edge of the lobe, as did the gear. How were the new gears? Machining them may work short term, but these parts are case hardened and when you machine them you run through the hardened layer into softer material.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi Chinewalker,

Gears that I got were good (the guy from the marina I bought them from attested to that fact)

yes, I was spinning the prop by hand. how do I make sure that things are aligned properly? I dont know what you mean by:

it could be hitting the high spot of the lobe, rather than the gap between them...

How do I check all linkages along the way for play or excess movement? those pics were of the old gears.

Thanks for your help.

Ivan

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

A good way to start checking the linkage is to open the "window" on the side of the motor leg. See how much the shift coupler moves in relation to moving the shift handle up top. If you're moving the handle several degrees before the coupling starts to move up or down, you may have a sloppy connection at the shift handle or shift shaft.

As for the alignment, if you are spinning the prop by hand when shifting, then you should be alright. The problem comes into play when the prop is not spinning. If the lobe of the clutch dog is in line with the lobe of the gear when you try to shift, then they'll hit and it won't go all the way in until the propshaft turns far enough for the clutch lobes to fall into the gap between the lobes on the gears.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

thanks Chinewalker.

if it is a sloppy connection at the shift shaft or handle, how would I fix that.

As for alignment, what I was doing was shifting it into gear, then trying to turn the prop. Not sure what I should be looking for here. so, when I shift, the clutch dog is stationary, so it has to engage when the forward gear turns enough to engage (I suppose).

Ivan

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

When properly engaged, you'll get about a quarter turn either way on the prop as the clutch dog lobe moves between the gear lobes. It's not "play" in the gears, it is normal...

As for removing sloppiness in the shift connections, you'd have to take the powerhead off to see if the connector at the end of the shift handle/shaft is worn. Sometimes they get hogged out a bit. Only fix is replacement of the connector.

Also, make sure the shift rod coupling behind the "window" is snug, as a loose one will give erratic shifting.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Thanks again. I guess what I can do is use needle nose pliers in the window to see if the shift rod moves up and down. should it move at all, or is there some maximal amount of movement that would tell me if I should remove the powerhead to get at the connector?

And, since I have never taken the power head off, are there some type of gaskets that I would have to buy to replace if I were to take the powerhead off?

much appreciated!

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

You want as little slop as possible. Offhand, I would say that if the upper handle is moving 1/8 turn before the shift coupling begins to move, then it's sloppy. If the slop isn't readily apparent, .ie you move the handle just a hair before things start to move at the coupling, you're probably alright. I know, not the clearest description, but it's one of those "do by feel" things. If it's worn to the point where things aren't shifting correctly, it ought to be fairly obvious...

Only gasket you'd need to replace would be the base gasket. If your local dealer can't get you one (OEM part number 305324) then you may have to get some gasket material, a hole punch and some sewing scissors and use your old one as a template.

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

+1 on all the previous comments. There are a few websites to check for parts. ebay.com, mareinengine.com and aomci.org are all good sites. Here are some handy links regarding your motor too.

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/v...ntage-evinrude-johnson/377513/37751300001.htm

http://www.leeroysramblings.com/johnson_QD.htm

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

You say it is still jumping out of gear. Have you tried it on the water? Or by jumping out of gear do you mean not meshing when you shift it out of water, without spinning the prop at the same time you shift? You mentioned that you shift, then spin the prop, you need to be spinning the prop while you shift. If so the gears and dog may be fine, just the testing procedure is to blame.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi HighTrim,

Thanks for the info. I'll keep that in mind when I am testing motors in the future.

The problem is that it is actually happening on the water. I put it into gear (forward, or reverse) get going even slowly, and it jumps out of gear.

thanks for the links KFA4303.

Ivan

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi Chinewalker,

I have been trying to figure out where this connector is on the parts list. is it the same thing as the shift linkage, or shifter lock detent bar? I have read about these, but cannot fing them on the parts diagrams.

"As for removing sloppiness in the shift connections, you'd have to take the powerhead off to see if the connector at the end of the shift handle/shaft is worn. Sometimes they get hogged out a bit. Only fix is replacement of the connector"

Ivan

 

[64osby]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

ivan, Your 1st post stated an issue with forward shifting.

Now you've changed gears and it's having issues with forward and reverse.

Sounds like something is mis-aligned or a clutch dog issue to me. Did you replace the pinion gear?

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

The parts I had in mind was the "shift rod lever and bushing assembly", part number 377188, and the "shift rod to lever connector", part number 303702. These are numbered 53 and 40 in the diagram.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

64osby, very observant. Actually, when I first posted, the issue was only with the forward gear. After I replaced the forward gear and pinion gear (marina told me the clutch dog still looked usable) I started having the problem with both forward and reverse.

Chinewalker, thank you for the clarification.

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi,

just a quick update, I tested the 'slop' in the shifter by moving the upper shift arm through the side window (where the lower and upper shift arms come together). seems that there is a lot of movement without the shift arm actually moving (3/4" movement). I'll be looking for those two parts, and see if that does the trick.

Ivan

 

[ivan77]

Re: Johnso qd19 1958 10hp gears question

Hi All,

now that the weather is better, I was able to replace the parts that Chinewalker suggested. I also found a new clutch dog for a good price, so I changed that at the same time. It now works just fine.

Thank you to everyone for your time and help! Without your advice, I wouldnt have a working motor.

Ivan