Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Heavyeight · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

1) O.K., I don't have power steering. 2) Yes. 3) I was thinking of this. However, this would only account for about 6 degrees of the advance, I'm off by a bunch (13 degrees) more than that. I will ground the temp. sensor in quick start and retest, but is there any way to entirely disable all functions of quick start? Last time motor was running quick start appeared to work and idle dropped back when engine hit operating temp. 4) This timing light has always worked well. I'll stick it on a car and check. 5) Power coil has passed resistance check, but I will recheck with new meter. But wouldn't this cause quick start to be inop? Could it cause power pack to advance timing somehow? Thanks Clanton!

Hooty · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

I've been following along with this and scratching my head too. That 28* btdc kinda caught my eye and I'm wondering if you've got something other then what you think you've got. Have you looked at the model and serial nr. stamped on the welch plug? c/6 Hooty

Heavyeight · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Hooty: Please forgive my ignorance, can you direct me to the welch plug? The model number I posted earlier came from the rear of the shaft housing underneath the back of the power head. It was printed on a decal. It indicates a 1992 motor. I'd love to find out where it is stamped on the powerhead and check. I'm running this on a 1999 Legacy Sea Era, which originally came equipped with a 200HP Johnson. I bought the boat without a motor. It turns 5500 RPM WOT and I get about 44 MPH out of it. From folks I've talked to who have run this model boat with a 200, this is a significant speed increase, so I know I've more horsepower than they do. So far the ignition part numbers have all matched a the 1992 225 both in number and appearance, and wiring diagrams match. Some of my initial confusion came from the fact that OMC appeared to swap the position of a charge coil and the power coil on the stator around 1993, and all OEM stators sold after this date seem to have this mod, including mine. I went out and rechecked power coil resistance, book calls for 86-106, mine is 98. Grounded quick start temp wire off powerpack and got no change in timing values at cranking speed. I did have a very telling incident though. I needed to open the powerpack to disconnect the power coil wires from the terminal block. After I reconnected everything I had lost the spark to cylinders 3 and 5 with spark tester. Jiggled primary wires and got spark on number 5 lost 1 and 3. Reopened powerpack and and jiggled primary wires, closed powerpack, good spark to all cylinders. I've done a lot of cranking lately, and my batteries are getting low. However, with plugs out the motor is still cranking at a pretty good clip, and all port plug wires had good spark. So I think the powerpack is suspect and could explain many problems. Thinking of throwing a powerpack at it. Good idea? Thanks guys.

Hooty · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

The welch plug looks like a freeze plug on a car engine. Looking down on the engine (flywheel view) it'll be on top of nr. two cylinder. c/6 Hooty

clanton · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Did this motor ever run? I have a 90 and 94 OMC manual, Im looking at the wiring diagrams. The 94 is not the same as 90, dont know what year the changes were made. You could very easy have a mismatch of pack, stator, and timer. These are the numbers for a 1992, should be check against master book for number changes. You could be over looking something very simple. Recheck the magnets in flywheel, are the notches on the magnets facing the same way? Are the wires connected correctly, the pack has a port, and stb side. 583970 Flywheel 584287 Stator 584037 Pack 584586 Timer, Changed in 92.

Heavyeight · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Will look for the welch plug tomorrow, thanks Hooty. Clanton: I checked the harnesses on the powerpack today, port goes to port, starboard to starboard. Flywheel, stator and new timer base numbers all match. Power pack is actually number 584036, however internal components look identical, wiring matches 1992. When I check CDI electronics I find their power pack 113-4037 replaces both OEM 584036 and 584037 as well as several other numbers, so I think this is the correct part. I will run this number through my OMC dealer's computer tomorrow and see what he says. Powerpack changed in 1993, but mine is definately 1992 wiring. OMC swapped power coil and charge coil position on stator but it has same part number. Where can I obtain an OMC master part list by number? Thanks!

Heavyeight · Aug 3, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Sorry. Yes, motor ran very well from anything above idle to WOT. Was very hard to start (cold), idled rough (but at correct speed), after extended idle speed operation would occasionally stall.

Heavyeight · Aug 4, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Today's installment for anyone following along at home. I bought a CDI powerpack for 95 dollars. Checked my old powerpack number with OMC dealer and found it never existed. It was off by 1 number from the one in the parts list. They told me they find that a lot with parts that come from Mexico, they change the OEM number by one. Anyway, I got the CDI electronics powerpack and installed it. Also installed new spark plug wires. Hooked up spark tester and got good spark. Charged batteries. Checked max advance timing at cranking speed as described earlier in this post. Still saw about 28 degrees BTDC. Decided I'd try to start it. Installed plugs, pressurized primer bulb and cranked it. After 3 weeks I didn't expect much. Engine immediatly caught then died. Repressurized bulb, cracked throttle, motor started right up. I nearly fell over. This boat has never started this well. I think I have cured the hard starting problem. When the engine rebuild was done I think I ended up with a bunch of worn ignition components, and it was a combination of several. Warmed the motor up to operating temp and checked timing in fwd idle. It was now right on 6 degrees ATDC, idle timing screw now gives 6 degrees ATDC at about the same position it used to yeild 2 BTDC. Motor now seems to want to run at proper idle time setting, adjusting either way made it worse. The problem however is that the idle is rough and erratic. Chugging and popping sounds. Motor will idle forever in neutral, quits occasionally in fwd idle, just drops two hundred RPM and dies. Didn't have a chance to take it out and run it at other speeds, but advancing throttle in neutral it seems rough even as speed is increased. I think I did a poor job adjusting the throttle linkage during the linkage and sync procedure. RPM doesn't advance smoothly with throttle, but jumps up. Book says poorly adjusted throttle cable can account for an erratic idle. So far I've accomplished half my goal, to cure the hard starting engine, timing getting better. I think I'll take it to the dealer on the corner and have them perform the linkage and sync procedures and check the timing. Shouldn't take long so I hope the labor won't be much.

Heavyeight · Aug 4, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Forgot to ask. Is there a site where engine serial number can be checked? Found a serial number on the welch plug, but no model number. And of course serial number on welch plug was one number off from the one on the label on the prop shaft housing, what else is new? Thanks!

Hooty · Aug 8, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Tell us somethin' Heavyeight. What's the status of this thang? c/6 Hooty

Heavyeight · Aug 8, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Sorry folks! I had hoped to get the sychronization and linkage procedure done this week. I had to go up north however and help a buddy paint a house before he moves his family up there. The job was bigger than he anticipated so i won't be able to get anything done until Monday with the shop on the corner. Will upadte as soon as I get results!

Heavyeight · Aug 12, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

Last installment. I finally got the boat up to the shop. As I suspected, I had done a very poor job of adjusting the throttle linkage. The shop was able to set the timing to book values, they did the whole linkage and sync procedure. Even before the shop work the boat started strong and ran all the way to the shop, only stalled while shifting once or twice. The mechanic at the shop occasionally experienced a lean sneeze and the motor quit. He thinks I may be running lean. When I did the carb rebuilds I was very careful and actually repaired one float that was set lean. Cleaned all parts, blew out all passages with compressed air, so I think I did a good job. He wanted to tear down all six again, I said no, if you can pinpoint one have at it. They put on the air cover and tweaked it a bit, idled well and no stalling at all after that. It does still miss occasionally in fwd idle below 1000RPM. Runs better than it ever did, and starts as easily as my car, so I'm inclined to leave it alone. When I rebuilt the carbs I found several leaking between the main bodies and throttle bodies. I also retorqued a few throttle body screws. This shop did a compression check as a matter of routine and came up with between 115 and 120 all cylinders. In April, the shop that repaired my gearcase saw 90-100 all cylinders. Could my repair of the leaking main body gaskets and retorqing of the loose throttle body screws have accounted for this increase? To summarize, hard starting and inability to set timing were the result of a bad timer base and faulty powerpack. The powerpack was more responsible but harder to diagnose. Also found a bad ignition coil and worn spark plug wires. Replacement of these items resulted in a strong spark and easy staring. Rebuild of carbs eliminated fuel leaks and in my opinion increased compression. Found adjusting throttle linkage to be difficult without prior experience, everything else was straight forward with manual. I also learned that if someone is selling rebuilt motors at 500 to 1000 less than someone else it's trouble. I think this power head was indeed rebuilt, but was surrounded by junk as far as gearcase, ignition parts, etc. So far, since fall 2000, this motor: ate a piston ring(original shop repaired), blew hole in gearcase (original shop repaired), starter burned out (I had it rebuilt), bad fuel pump (replaced by me), junk for timer base and power pack (replaced by me), gearcase siezed (I had another installed by reputable shop). They did, however, do a great job of repainting it and putting on brand new decals! Unless I decide to tinker any more with the carbs I'm just going to run it for now. Thanks to everyone that answered my questions, especially Hooty, Joe Reeves, Clanton and jclaydog. I hope others will find the info in this post as helpful as the info I found in many of the others I searched.

Hooty · Aug 12, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

That's good news Heavy. I'm glad you're back on the water. To bad it took so much time and dineros but you're up and runnin' and that's what counts. g'luck & c/6 Hooty

93bronco · Aug 12, 2003

Re: Johnson 225 Ignition timing

glad to sea you are back in motion!!!!

Johnson 225 Ignition timing

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