Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Joho. I hate to keep saying this but you need to realign parts #'s 52 and 109. (probably by only one tooth) These are the gears that change your horizontal tiller movement to vertical movement. This will make everything work right. You will be able to adjust your idle speed while on the move and every time you throttle up it will return to your previous setting (speed). Give it a try. Rick.

 

[joho5]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

ok, this whole time I thought you were talking about where the tiller swivels, those gears. I was like those can only go 1 way.

I will take a look at it tomorrow and see if I can figure it out.

thanks

Matt

 

[joho5]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

actually, now that I think about it, that wont work either. Bottom line is that the rod that sticks out that goes in and out and works with the idle speed has to come out as far as it is now so the roller stops on the timing mark...right? even if the teeth might be the problem, it still has to let the linkage go backwards enough to contact with them flat bar that works with the idle speed. If I adjusted those two gears and it stopped the cam to where the roller would stop on the timing mark, then it would be too far from the flat bar to work with the idle adjustment...does that make sense?

Could it be the wrong idle adjustment bar? maybe from a different year model or something where they were made a bit shorter?

I dont know, but i was just thinking if I realligned the gears that you suggested, then yes, it might stop the stystem to where it stops on the timing mark, but then it would prevent it to come in contact with the flat bar that controls the troll speed / idle adjustment.

does that make sense?

 

[joho5]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

nevermind, i see how it will work now. I just have to figure out how to adjust those gears now. Still dont have the manual.

thanks

Matt

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I'll be very surprised if this doesn't work. It will take you some time though. Basically you will need to remove the gears the tiller parts leading up to part #52. Once you get 52 out of the way you will have to remove the linkage to part #108 and then remove 108. At this point you will need a 1/4 in. lag bolt. Screw it into the centre of part #107 from the top of 109. Just turn the lag in by hand and once you think it is gripping well pull up on the lag and the shaft # 107 will lift out vertically. Then you can turn the gear 109 one notch and put it all back together. These instructions are going by the way I did it but if you take a good look perhaps you don't need to take the tiller apart if you can get to the 109 gear. I had my tiller off at the time and I also had the recoil off so access was not a problem. It will go much quicker if you can leave the tiller gear #52 in place. Once you get part # 107 removed gear 109 just simply slides back out of the way. Go for it as I'm sure you can do it and you will have this problem solved. I should say I'm giving you directions in the absence of looking at my motor and service manual. Neither are available to me right now. I don't believe the service manual even mentions this procedure. I learned it off Leroy Wiesners web pages. The more I look at the parts diagram I'm thinking you can do it without removing the parts from the tiller (52) If you remove the 52 and shaft #53 you will see indents on them so the shaft goes back in the right order. One end has three notches and the other has two. Best of luck and let me know how it went. Rick.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I am sorry but I don't see how realigning those gears will help the situation.
It will affect the position of the tiller grip in relation to the start and shift marks which I did not think was a problem anyway. I fear that altering these gears may simply create other problems.

If the whole tiller assembly right up to and including part #52 were removed it should still be possible to use the knob to bring the mark on the cam in line with the roller.

Joho5 says "Could it be the wrong idle adjustment bar? maybe from a different year model or something where they were made a bit shorter" That is one of the possible conclusions I was coming to! The other is that there is something wrong with the link between the vertical shaft and the magneto but i dont see how that can be unless there are some wrong parts in there.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Vic.S. The vertical shaft will be a few more degrees clockwise which will bring the tab on the vertical rod closer to the adjustable idle control. I really don't know about the relation of the tiller to the markings as any tiller I have is so loose I just ignore the marks. "Could it be the wrong idle adjustment bar?" I suppose it's possible but I have three different year motors and that part is identical on all three. I have made this correction on two of my three with no ill affect. I have pursued a fix to this identical problem for over three years and only recently found a reference to some alignment marks on the two gears in Leroy Wiesner's articles. Joho has been asking for a solution for many weeks in this post and in others and while I am certainly a learner in the outboard business I'm pretty sure I have given him a solution. I believe it is the only way to move the vertical shaft into contact with the idle adjustment knob shaft. I guess it's up to Joho now. I know I have little experience compared to many on this site but I am fairly confident about this solution. Rick.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I hope you are right. As you say he has been looking for a solution for a while.

Just cant see it being the solution that's all. If it moves the vertical shaft so that the stop is closer to the control knob won't that be moving the cam in the wrong direction?

Something else wrong there I am sure!

He'll report back hopefully.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

All I can say is it has worked for me twice. I have been able to link and sinc. both motors after the fix. One thing that bugs me is not having my motor close at hand where I can go and look at it to imagine the effect of how one cure might cause another problem but I still think that is his problem. I don't know if these gears jump a notch in use or if they have been apart and put back together wrong. My gut feeling is they might be jumping a notch. I know one thing for sure, I'm going to feel like a fool if it doesn't work for his motor. I feel as though my neck is on the line here. Rick.

 

[joho5]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Rick, your neck isnt on the line. I would have pulled it all apart anyways. Actually I was thinking if I could just add an extension or something to that idle adjustment bar on the inside...it would work. Its kind of compensating, but it would work perfect. Thats the easiest thing to do without pulling everything apart.

I will check it out and let you guys know what I do.

Matt

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Matt. Thanks for the release. I can't see a way to extend the bar but on my 15 I did glue a little hardwood (tiny) wedge on the vertical rod where the bar touches. That worked well for me but I always new it wasn't the correct fix. That bar as you know is a left hand thread and a fine thread to boot so I quickly gave up on the idea of finding hardware to extend it. The more I think about it you don't have to disassemble the tiller parts. Once you get the gear out that sits on the cowl the other gear should come straight off. You don't even need to take the horizontal tiller gear out but cleanliness is next to Godliness so I always clean things up whenever the situation presents itself. Best of luck and do let us know. Rick.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Matt. I've been waiting to hear all is well. I just wanted to say I got a chance to check out my 9.9 today and I'm certain as ever my solution is correct. If you remove the gear and move it one notch it will move the vertical throttle contact closer to your idle adjustment knob screw and it will also move your wheel further toward the timing mark. No doubt in my mind, but.. maybe in yours? (and Vic's) Rick.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

it will also move your wheel further toward the timing mark

Don't forget in Matt's case the mark on the cam has already gone past the roller, at least thats my understanding. Tuning the vertical shaft so that its stop is closer to the idle control knob will take that mark even further past the roller won't it?

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

My understanding is Matt's roller is going past the cam toward the port side. By moving the gear one notch it will move the idle cam (on the vertical shaft)closer to the idle speed adjuster and move the roller further to the starboard on the timing cam. I am certain this is the fix for his (and propably lots of other) 9.9 and 15's. This should be the fix for his motor stalling out when throttled back as well. Rick.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

No the mark on cam is going past the roller. The roller does not move relative to the position of the cam. The cam moves as the throttle control is operated to lift the roller.(which in turn opens the butterfly valve in the carb.)
Turning the vertical shaft to bring it's stop lug closer to the idle control knob will move the cam the wrong way and take the mark even even further past the roller.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

Vic, am I ever glad your thinking this fix through. This was clear as can be when I was looking at the linkage from the shaft to the timing. Now I'm thinking your right. Sorry about the reference to the roller moving left and right. I know it's the timing cam that moves. I have to look again at the whole connection and won't likely have a chance until Sunday. Thanks for keeping a thoughtful eye on my ideas. Like I said before I have made this adjustment to two of my motors with success but my goal was always to make the idle adjustment knob shaft reach the cam. Both mine idle well with the throttle backed off. Rick.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I am sure there is something wrong with Matt's other than this idle knob and vertical shaft business.

I'm now thinking about the link between the vertical shaft and the magneto base plate, but that's via a link that's permanently fixed to the base plate isn't it. Can the cam be fitted wrongly on the base plate.

Have some wrong parts been put in there?

Really confused.

All so much simpler with the later cable operated type.

 

[12guns]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I read over the previous posts and didn't see the gear position of the tiller handle mentioned...couldn't the gears be out a notch or two? Would make sense that he's running ok (not as fast as he should), but when he turns the handle to slow, the handle turns too far and kills the motor?? Just a thought I have a 9.9 w/ 15 hp carb, no exhaust baffle, open intake ect, and it runs like a scalded dog for a 9.9! Seems like the gears on the handle have one large notch, so my theory may not even be possible, just a thought.

 

[timsmcm]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

I would like to chime in here also. I have an 85 evinrude 15hp and I have the same problem the idle adjustment knob on the side does not go out far enough to make idle adjustments to my motor. I have moved the gears around and it will not make any difference. I ended up putting the timing in the gears back like the manual said and then I put about 1/4 inch of black silicone glue on the little triangle tab on the vertical shaft and it worked like a charm. there must be something wrong with the cam and the timing plate or some wrong part. My motor looks original but you know it may not be.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Johnson / Evinrude 9.9 or 15 owners question

timsmcm,

Seems a common problem. Rick, I think it was, has already mentioned a piece of wood glue to that stop tab.

12guns,

it really ought to be possible to set it up without the tiller etc so that when the throttle is closed the mark on the cam lines up with the roller on the carb when the tab on the vertical shaft comes in contact with the idle control knob. The tiller can be sorted out as another issue afterwards.

It does not seem to be possible to do that and until it is the idle adjust knob does not do anything and most annoyingly of all the motor dies when throttle back too far.

It seems like a design fault but the motor was in production for far too long before the cable operated system was introduced (ca 1986) for that to be a likely explanation.