Johnson VRO failure

[truestylz]

I have a 95 johnson outboard the problem i was having was that it would stall out when i went from neutral to trolling speed (no wake speed) but when i went straight to high speed it ran perfect.. i did my own compression test got 125 on all 3 cylinders. i sent it to the shop and he said that he got 150 150 and 120 so he looked and there was very very minor scoring on the oil side. would this cause that stalling or would it really just be low speed on my carbs cloged..?

Also would it be a good idea to mix a small mixture of oil in my gas along with having the VRO hooked up just in case some times it isnt mixing properly id rather not disconnect the VRO if i can. I just figure by adding premix to it it may just smoke more.. just trying to see if i am right or if it may cause other damages?
i still feel that my engine is fine and not need a rebuild just from what i see and have already done.. any info would be really helpful


Thanks

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

What motor do you have? They didn't use a VRO in 1995, those were OMS pumps. And what do you mean by light scoring on the "oil side"?

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

it is a vro on this thats what the marina called it and i reasearched it and it is a VRO unit....
and by the scoring i just mean that it was caused by lack of oil..... he suggested just to disconnect the Vro unit and just premix but id rather keep it and add some oil to the gas as well just to make sure it is fully lubed.....
just for resale purposes i dont want to have to disconnect it...

 

[Backlash]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Dhadley is correct on the terminology...however, many folks continue to refer to the OMS pump as VRO. Have you received any "alarms" when running the engine? It's more probable that you need a thorough carb cleaning than anything else.
Backlash

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

ya i agree on needing carb cleaning.. when anything is off its usually best just to do the carbs anyways since alot of the time it is them... so that will be done for sure.
my main thing is just seeing if it is ok to do premix of gas and oil along with the Vro connected as well.. just to make sure it is getting enough oil...or if that may just cause more problems.....

i just hope that the reason it is stalling out is because of the carbs and that he is not right about having to do the powerhead... (not really worth $1500 to do that in my opinnion..)

im sure if there is scoring around the pistons it would cause blow by but dont see where that would cause it to stall in low idle and not in neutral or highspeed as well..

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Is he saying there's an "oil side" to the pistons? The pistons should have oil on all of the skirt, not just one side.

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

No that was just bad wording on my part... he said its scoring cause not enough oil to coat all around. which shows its not getting enough oil...

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

The OMS doesn't discriminate ... all cylinders get the exact same % of oil to gas. A fouled carb CAN cause a cylinder to run lean, which does cause damage, but is totally unrelated to the oiling system. Lean means too little of the oil gas mixture, which does lots of damage to motors every year. BTW, you don't have a VRO on your motor, it's OMS (Oil Metering System). From '93 on there were no VRO2's only OMS. Your mechanic either misspoke or is ignorant.

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

ok whatever the name of the unit is its actually the same concept of what its supposed to do... so thanks for some of this info but its not helping with much of the question. the name of the unit thats causing problems doesnt matter at this point...

i know that it can not work the way it is supposed to which is why premix is the better option between the VRO or whatever u want to call it. but im just asking if in anyones knowledge if it will damage anything by also mixxing some oil in the gas along with having the Vro or whatever u want to call it. still hooked up...!!!!

thanks not trying to be a dik but i didnt ask what the name of the unit is im asking about the mixing options

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

If you want to learn about VRO/OMS, try here: http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/VRO.html

If you had a true 'VRO' failure, you would have three dead cylinders, not one slightly low. The low one probably has a stuck ring or enough scoring to drop the compression a little.

 

[d.boat]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

ok whatever the name of the unit is its actually the same concept of what its supposed to do... so thanks for some of this info but its not helping with much of the question. the name of the unit thats causing problems doesnt matter at this point...

i know that it can not work the way it is supposed to which is why premix is the better option between the VRO or whatever u want to call it. but im just asking if in anyones knowledge if it will damage anything by also mixxing some oil in the gas along with having the Vro or whatever u want to call it. still hooked up...!!!!

thanks not trying to be a dik but i didnt ask what the name of the unit is im asking about the mixing options

Either your vro/oms pump works or it doesn't. Is there any reason at all you think it's not working? Have you done a check of oil usage? Like the others said, what you've seen in that one piston has nothing to do with the vro/oms pump. Figure out why it happened and fix it, but don't try to deal with a problem that isn't there.

Re: pre-mix: It won't hurt to add oil to the gas, but why would you - so far you haven't talked about anything that has to do with a pump failure, so why mess with that.

If you want to premix, just d/c the oil side of the pump, premix and be done with it.

And guys: re: the "VRO" vs. "OMS" stuff. OK, we get it. But it's really irrelevant and you know as well as we do that "VRO" is the most commonly used term for this pump among almost all users and most mechanics. Get over it! It certainly wasn't helpful to his question and just got the question tangled into an issue that was nonsense.

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Thanks for clearing that up in a better way then i could..
Im just getting really frustrated with mechanics. I know a bit but not as much as i would like...
the problem i had it in for in the first place about the stalling when i go from neutral to forward(or reverse) at slow speed. but in my driveway on the muffs it works perfect no stalling... Id say thats a problem with the carbs....
or could the very very small scratches in the cylinder cause that to.

and yes a small amount of oil is used when i take it out so thats where i always figured it was all working fine as well... no alarms to.

im just not getting his compression test vs mine when all 3 were the same with mine and his are so off.

 

[d.boat]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Thanks for clearing that up in a better way then i could..
Im just getting really frustrated with mechanics. I know a bit but not as much as i would like...
the problem i had it in for in the first place about the stalling when i go from neutral to forward(or reverse) at slow speed. but in my driveway on the muffs it works perfect no stalling... Id say thats a problem with the carbs....
or could the very very small scratches in the cylinder cause that to.

and yes a small amount of oil is used when i take it out so thats where i always figured it was all working fine as well... no alarms to.

im just not getting his compression test vs mine when all 3 were the same with mine and his are so off.

Maybe try a new gauge or different mechanic and decide which readings you feel comfortable with?

As for the functioning of the VRO/OMS system: If you buy an OEM shop manual, you can find out what maintenance and check-ups are for that system. It's really not tough to check for water and contamination in the tank, alarms, re-prime and then run the next tank of gas pre-mix gas while checking oil and gas usage ratio to make sure everything (pump and alarms) is working. About 30 minutes work the first time, 10 minutes the second.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Thanks for clearing that up in a better way then i could..
Im just getting really frustrated with mechanics. I know a bit but not as much as i would like...
the problem i had it in for in the first place about the stalling when i go from neutral to forward(or reverse) at slow speed. but in my driveway on the muffs it works perfect no stalling... Id say thats a problem with the carbs....
or could the very very small scratches in the cylinder cause that to.

and yes a small amount of oil is used when i take it out so thats where i always figured it was all working fine as well... no alarms to.

im just not getting his compression test vs mine when all 3 were the same with mine and his are so off.

Compression is even (your test) or one hole slightly low (mechanics test) ... stalling likely has zero to do with that or the oiling system. I would start by cleaning carbs (complete disassembly, soak in carb solvent, etc.) See here for more info: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=244013

 

[jonesg]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Premixing will not help if theres a clogged carb.
If one cyl isn't getting gas, its not going to get the oil either.
Rebuild with new kits and re-test.

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

ya i am getting my boat back from them tomorrow and ill just run more of my own tests. at this point i might just search for a newer engine 90hp 2003-2006 and just work on this motor over the winter.. i guess i there is no classifieds on this forum to search for some engines but if anyone knows any places i can contact that would be great. i live in canada but dont mind shipping something over...

im pretty sure its the carbs personally. ill just clean em out or rebuild them just to check. since its a low cost anyways..

im mainly angry cause i just purchased this boat agter selling my older yamaha which i loved cause it would never fail and now running into this when the season for us is almost over and only been out on it 3 times and all three had this stalling problem so makes it hard to enjoy

 

[jonesg]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

Go to a dealership and buy the carb kits, rebuild carbs in under 2 hrs even if you're slow.

 

[truestylz]

Re: Johnson VRO failure

ok thanks for all the suggestions.. Ill give em all a try and see which works...

but if anyone knows of a good place to get 90 hp outboards 2002-2006
create motors or even used let me know send me a pm if u have to..

thanks again